Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby HappyBoozer » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:32 pm

Ideas for a New World

I suggest creating the northern and southern parts of the world separated by the sea.

I apologize for my English, I tried to make the translation understandable.

I know that the idea of the continents is on the list of forbidden topics. But I considered it from the technical point of view, without hindering the automatic generation of the map.

Technically, the division of the world can be done as follows. In the coordinates (for example)
y> 40 are generated northern biomes
20 <y <40 coastal northern biomes (water, forests, fields)
-20 <y <20 sea (deep water, shallow water, sandy islands)
-40 <y <-20 coast of the south (water, meadows, sands)
y<-40 southern biomes

Image

I believe that it is technically possible to set the conditions for generating the map taking into account the coordinates.
Apparently it will be necessary to create 2 types of plowing and trampled earth for the north and for the south. For northern biomes to set the properties of the north, for southern biomes, respectively, southern properties. Using the same principle, you can specify the conditions for teleportation.

Partially divide resources by continents. On one continent, the extraction of some resources will be difficult or impossible or give low quality, but the extraction of other resources will be simple and give high quality. On the other continent it will be similar with other resources. Thus, trade becomes a necessity. Ships and boats make the only way to cross the sea, this will contribute to the emergence of piracy and the robbery of merchant ships.

Only save teleportation within each continent.

The sea will represent a very wide strip from west to east, the continents will be confined to water only on one side. The map can be generated in all directions, the main thing is to generate a sea, similar to an endless river. The distance between the continents is not less than 10-15 minutes with the speed of the boat.

About the differences between continents:
The northern part is dominated by mountains, the southern part is plains.
In the north, preference is given to forest, metal, hunting. The initial quality of conifers can be increased, for example to 20, as well as to increase the quality of the planting. The quality of the ore from the second level is also increased, for example, by a factor of 1.5. Consequently, the maximum quality at level 5 will be x1.5. You can also increase the amount of ore mined. Increase the quality of animal skins peculiar to the north: deer, bear, elk, sheep, walrus, mammoth. The amount of wool from sheep to increase, for example, x2, and the quality x3 or x4, which would not be inferior to the quality of flax in the south.
At the same time, it is impossible to grow many crops: grapes, flax, tobacco, etc., as well as some bushes (tea) and trees (olives, peaches, mulberry). Some crops must germinate before planting on the table of the herbalist. The rate of maturation is reduced, the quality increase is reduced. To make it impossible to grow southern imported varieties of crops that are already of high quality. Areas of land suitable for agriculture make 10-15% of the total area. The rest of the snow and mountains are suitable only for forest and hunting. If possible, then with the advance to the north make an increase in the quality of the ore.

On the southern continent, you can grow all the crops. The quality of seeds imported from the north of the coniferous trees is greatly reduced when planting. Perhaps blueberries, cranberries, lingonberry can be removed from the south. If possible, then with the advance to the south, increase the rate of ripening of crops, fruit trees.
The balance can be adjusted by the prevalence of gold, silver, pearls, clay quality, etc. Although the balance is finally adjusted by the prices of goods.
Thus, we will get 2 different worlds, in which there will be different prices for goods in the markets of the north and south. In the south, for example, grain will be cheaper than in the north, and the metal is more expensive. Due to the difference in prices, the transportation of goods across the sea will be necessary, interesting and profitable.
This gap can be further increased. The main thing is to create an urgent need for exports and imports. For example, at all to remove from the south gold and silver, and from the north flax, silk.
If the idea is interesting, then the differences between the continents can be worked out in more detail and clearly.

Will be cool if:
1. Make a port building in which it will be easy to unload or load a ship, that is, immediately sell or buy goods for transport from the market (remote access to barter stand).
2. In the sea, you can create obstacles in the form of storms, which will make the crossing of the sea on small boats risky. Storms will appear unexpectedly, arbitrarily. It will be interesting if the storms destroy the cargo in the boat and the boat itself, and throw the cargo overboard, where they will sail. This does not apply to Knarr. You can add several sandy islets and shoal water in the sea, on which you can be saved during a storm. Teleportation to your campfire from the sea and the islands is forbidden. You can get out of the island only by boat. I'm sure this will bring a lot of lulz into the game.
3. In the north, use the influence of cold. Add the heat scale of the character. Some clothes will keep warm. Bonfires, food and alcohol make up for the heat. Make ovens and hearths for heating the dwellings.
4. Add to the game Drakkar for robbery, spaciousness, for example 10 people (or 1 cargo instead of 1 passenger, as in a boat). The speed of Drakkar will depend on the number of people on the oars and at 10 rowers it will significantly exceed Knarr's speed. If only 1 person on the Drakkar the speed is like that of a boat or less.
5. Make boarding possible. Boarding will stop the ships, and all the characters will be in the melee zone. The seized ship passes to the victorious captain or village.

Why all this is necessary. I stop playing when our village gets almost all the materials and items, it takes about a month of play. After that, it's not interesting to play and we are waiting for a new world. The proposed changes will complicate and slow development, and hence players will be longer in the game. Probably someone will want to move and live in other lands or become a seafarer or a pirate. The North must be severe, difficult for life, where steep bearded men with good weapons will live. South - happy easy life, marred by raids and looting from the north.

I hope the essence of my idea is clear and technically possible.
HappyBoozer
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:30 pm

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby sMartins » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:07 pm

Very clever and nice idea. Give us the "Mediterraneo", the core of the world.
Perhaps also crops efficiency scaling with the Y coordinate, more north or south you go, slower your crops will be, and impossible to grow the most esotic crops ... on the other side, better mining, and so on .... in short meditate a bit on the resource scaling along y coordinates.
Of course setting on the Meditteraneo river should be the best spot to tribe, colture and so on ... maybe Sweden people are not really agree with this :D, but it's the reality :D
Pls Jorb or Loftar give us a confirmation you have read this post, cause it's a really good idea.
Make friends with the other crabs or try to escape the bucket.
I'd hardly call anything the Bible of our times. » special thanks to MagicManICT
I only logged in to say this sentence. by neeco » 30 Oct 2018, 02:57
Default Client, Best Client!
User avatar
sMartins
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby Granger » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:34 pm

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=48725#p637708:
sabinati wrote:top ten ideas you should stop posting new threads about
...
5. oceans / islands / continents
...

HappyBoozer wrote:I know that the idea of the continents is on the list of forbidden topics. But...

but MY idea is DIFFERENT because

no, it isn't
but WHERE is the thread about X

search.php


This. (emphasis mine)

PS: Unlocking on public demand, have fun with another discussion on what already has been discussed to kingdom come and back.
PS#2: Stay on topic.
PS#3: Reference (basically the same in green but the ocean not W->E in the middle).
IMHO viewtopic.php?f=48&t=48367&p=632348 - Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:04 pm
Ragnar214 wrote:Make the map into two continents in reverence to real world Britannia and Scandinavia. Who knows what kind of fighting and conquering will break out. ( For boats Britannian boats would be like galleys or caravels or something)


PS#4:
HappyBoozer,
please don't get me wrong, I don't want to discourage you from making suggestions (and for a 1st post yours is impressive)...
(and here comes the 'but') but to start off with 'I know I violate the don't' is somewhat interesting, to word it in a neutral way.

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=51972&p=687744&hilit=continents#p687744
is a post from one of the devs, it might have made -instead of ignoring the don't do this and plainly referencing it- more sense to add to that topic, possibly as a quote of that post.

So please, for the future, use the search function and read up on what was already written about the topic and add to the old topic(s) in case there is something new that was overlooked back then.

HappyBoozer wrote:...
Why all this is necessary. I stop playing when our village gets almost all the materials and items, it takes about a month of play. After that, it's not interesting to play and we are waiting for a new world.
...

Question: where is the difference of waiting for a new world to spawning new characters and building a new village from scratch?
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
User avatar
Granger
 
Posts: 9254
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby HappyBoozer » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:38 pm

Granger wrote:This. (emphasis mine)

I read it. And I also read topics with proposals about continents, and read why those ideas were rejected. Problems are in the automatic generation of the map. If there are other important reasons, I would like to know about them.
I tried to consider the problem of generating a map. I did not see that someone would consider this issue from the technical side.

Forgive me for creating a new topic.
HappyBoozer
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:30 pm

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby sMartins » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:44 pm

Loftar said multiple times that he needs the ability to expand the map if necessary, and that's not possible with islands sorrounded by water, and so on.
Instead, maybe, this idea is a good one cause it seems to allow map extension for the 2 mass of land, but i'm not sure about ...
We'll see what Loftar think about.
Make friends with the other crabs or try to escape the bucket.
I'd hardly call anything the Bible of our times. » special thanks to MagicManICT
I only logged in to say this sentence. by neeco » 30 Oct 2018, 02:57
Default Client, Best Client!
User avatar
sMartins
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby Granger » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:00 pm

HappyBoozer wrote:Forgive me for creating a new topic.

I have. You have a personal message. Gist: topics about this exist (thus the 'stop creating new topics about xyz' sticky) so please add to the existing one(s).

sMartins wrote:Loftar said multiple times that he needs the ability to expand the map if necessary, and that's not possible with islands sorrounded by water, and so on.
Instead, maybe, this idea is a good one cause it seems to allow map extension for the 2 mass of land, but i'm not sure about ...
We'll see what Loftar think about.

I added some to my message above, including a link to why loftar thinks islands are bad (and it's not because it's impossible to expand the map).
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
User avatar
Granger
 
Posts: 9254
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby HappyBoozer » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:51 pm

Granger wrote:
HappyBoozer wrote:Forgive me for creating a new topic.

I have. You have a personal message. Gist: topics about this exist (thus the 'stop creating new topics about xyz' sticky) so please add to the existing one(s).

sMartins wrote:Loftar said multiple times that he needs the ability to expand the map if necessary, and that's not possible with islands sorrounded by water, and so on.
Instead, maybe, this idea is a good one cause it seems to allow map extension for the 2 mass of land, but i'm not sure about ...
We'll see what Loftar think about.

I added some to my message above, including a link to why loftar thinks islands are bad (and it's not because it's impossible to expand the map).


Maybe my very superficial knowledge of English gave me a different understanding of this. I realized that the world of the islands is not interesting, but I do not offer the islands. I did not understand correctly? I suggested one sea, the intersection of which will be a great and interesting adventure.
Well, let there be no sea. I want to travel necessities. Cargo transportation. Trade. Caravans with valuable goods are not they interesting? My idea is to scatter resources around the world and get them to transport. But today one village can provide for itself anything.
HappyBoozer
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:30 pm

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby Granger » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:53 pm

HappyBoozer wrote:My very superficial knowledge of English gave me a different understanding of this. I realized that the world of the islands is not interesting, but I do not offer the islands. I did not understand correctly?
As far as I understood Loftar: islands are boring and do not fit the setting.

I suggested one sea, the intersection of which will be a great and interesting adventure.

Your suggestion is to basically partition the world into two parts (here) with different distribution of resources and grow rates for crops (The Sea).

Well, let there be no sea. I want to travel necessities. Cargo transportation. Trade. Caravans with valuable goods are not they interesting? My idea is to scatter resources around the world and get them to transport.
I got that. This has been suggested quite often and it has one simple problem: it dosn't work that well on several levels.

It starts with
But today one village can provide for itself anything.
will make no difference as then effective villages with more than one idol will be created (with one place in the south to grow the food and one in the north to mine the metal and get the quality bones), similar to the current method of claiming localized resources.

Random encounters that can lead to being shipwrecked/dying/losing stuff either stop to be threatening at some point or by them randomly killing of characters will most likely be generally disliked.

The only real difference is that it would take a little more time and be more tedious to move stuff from A to B (north to south and vice versa) by removing teleportation between them - FYI, usually when I suggested to get rid of teleportation the pitchfork and torches guys tried to burn me at a stake.

Given the distribution of resources you described the first faction that successfully settles the north will (given that they can detect new settlements there quickly enough) win easily as reaching the north = access to quality metal and animals = access to advanced armor and weapons = huge combat advantage against people not yet having built the northern industry. Should they return to the south => slaughter everything that moves as they have the gear and the ones in the south dosn't. So it basically would make the world harder for more casual groups (and remove access to a fair part of the game from hermits) while the hoops to jump through for factions would just be mere annoyances.


Also still the (slightly reworded to make it more clearer) open question of:
where is the difference between waiting for a new world -and- spawning new characters and building a new village from scratch?
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
User avatar
Granger
 
Posts: 9254
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby HappyBoozer » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:32 am

Granger wrote:will make no difference as then effective villages with more than one idol will be created (with one place in the south to grow the food and one in the north to mine the metal and get the quality bones), similar to the current method of claiming localized resources.


Any village can conclude a trade union with the opposite village. The village that will be able to offer more goods in its market will be in a favorable position. Even weak villages offering imported goods of low quality will be in demand among beginners.

Granger wrote:Random encounters that can lead to being shipwrecked/dying/losing stuff either stop to be threatening at some point or by them randomly killing of characters will most likely be generally disliked.


You can make teleportation only without things. People will only worry about the ship and the cargo. It will add emotions, thrills, adrenaline.
Death in PVP is already reduced

Granger wrote:The only real difference is that it would take a little more time and be more tedious to move stuff from A to B (north to south and vice versa) by removing teleportation between them - FYI, usually when I suggested to get rid of teleportation the pitchfork and torches guys tried to burn me at a stake.


You can also say about farming, about ore mining, and about hunting. Transportation of goods will become another similar work.
It would be good to involve not only ships, but also wagons.

Granger wrote:Given the distribution of resources you described the first faction that successfully settles the north will (given that they can detect new settlements there quickly enough) win easily as reaching the north = access to quality metal and animals = access to advanced armor and weapons = huge combat advantage against people not yet having built the northern industry. Should they return to the south => slaughter everything that moves as they have the gear and the ones in the south dosn't. So it basically would make the world harder for more casual groups (and remove access to a fair part of the game from hermits) while the hoops to jump through for factions would just be mere annoyances.


The balance needs to be adjusted. In addition, the north will supply armor and weapons to the south, that would provide themselves with other goods.
If the idea of divided resources around the world will be accepted for consideration, then it will be possible to deal with the balance. But now this is a meaningless conversation.
Beginners-hermits usually do not reach average quality and do not need exotic resources. All they need is anywhere in the world. And in the nearest market they will be able to buy something imported.

Granger wrote:Also still the (slightly reworded to make it more clearer) open question of:
where is the difference between waiting for a new world -and- spawning new characters and building a new village from scratch?


A little off topic, but I will answer. The first month of the game is an active exchange with the neighbors of seeds, scarce resources (coal, wax, metal, tools), as well as the exchange of information about the location of resources. Asking for something to craft. Exchange animals. After a month of playing games with neighbors, it does not make sense anymore.
HappyBoozer
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:30 pm

Re: Creating the northern and southern parts of the world

Postby Aceb » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:05 pm

Well, trading corps still happens. If someone who started to play game now, can't find a seed, They go out to ask neighbours for some.

Also, wouldn't that whole idea kill another thing that is expanding the world in times of need?
A quest for a hat. - W10
Image
Haven't spawned yet
User avatar
Aceb
 
Posts: 1830
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:34 pm

Next

Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Claude [Bot] and 47 guests