FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby shubla » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:24 am

every time character dies

regenerate new world


true permadeath
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby Aceb » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:10 pm

ChildhoodObesity wrote:people can still die with 100% hhp if theyre hit at the same time with a big hhp dealing hit, its hard to time in actual fights unless you have the guy trapped like they did or if youre in a knarr/boat.


That would require some sick timing bro, or just skill. Not sure.
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby MagicManICT » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:37 pm

calebsnow wrote:2)Murder is gone


Do you mean the skill which you had to buy to be able to attack a KO'd player? All you need to do is buy Rage now. Isn't this a better thing? Or should we really go back to needing a special skill to do this that really only takes a day to get from world start? (Not even that long, really... 18 hrs or so at best.)

calebsnow wrote:3)You basically have to kill yourself to die, or be a complete numpt

Yeah, but wasn't that true before, too?
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby tyrtix » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:05 pm

MagicManICT wrote:
calebsnow wrote:
calebsnow wrote:3)You basically have to kill yourself to die, or be a complete numpt

Yeah, but wasn't that true before, too?



Besides the fact that someone that seems to urge so much to kill someone else player for fun seems a bit worrying to me, there's this thing above: bringing to the extent of not exiting the walls, even murder may answer to the same rule, as anyone can say "leaving the walls and got murdered is noobish, you killed yourself".
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby Headchef » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:32 pm

Besides the fact...



Point is this knockout update makes fights between realms and such very lame.

You encounter eachother, someone get Ko'd, they hearthfire, some stupid gear anyone can make gets stolen, fallen party uses ''camomille compress'' until fine again, repeat.

Previously mistakes were paid for by losing the character so a victory would actually grant you an advantage because the person that lost is way lower stats in the next encounter.

Now you have people with 3k + base attributes and unless they act completely retarded they will always remain at those stats.

The point is not about killing noobs and whether that's fun or not, point is that this literally kills the end game for a lot of people.

And these people happen to be the older players who do like the game for what it is and play it way more than the sprucecaps crying on the forums which lead to shit updates like knockout.

Casuals quit all the time so to please them with this update and just say fuck you to veterans is not wise for current population counter I think.

I still think something like this http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=57358&hilit=smoke+of+war should be implemented in between until there's another approach.

Now a lot have quit already because no point after this knockout update, which with a temporary solution to still fight to the death but just not involve noobs, would not have been necessary.
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby Granger » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:50 pm

Headchef wrote:The point is not about killing noobs and whether that's fun or not, point is that this literally kills the end game for a lot of people.

I see your point when it comes to fights between factions, sadly the mechanic isn't limited to faction warfare but is the same that impact the noobs and I think it's a good thing that the amount of rage quitting new players seems to be massively reduced, at least according to what I have seen on the forum since the change.

Nevertheless, I see the issue with endgame players feeling the stakes to be to low when factions fighting amongst each other.
So I'll shamelessly reiterate a suggestion I made a while back:

What about linking rage with disabling the KO mechanic?
Enable a character to attack others would have the downside of combat defect leniency (KO + HF teleport) no longer being available.

Would that solve the issue for endgame warfare, while keeping noobs reasonably safe from being ganked for the lulz?
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby Headchef » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:58 pm

Granger wrote:
Headchef wrote:The point is not about killing noobs and whether that's fun or not, point is that this literally kills the end game for a lot of people.

I see your point when it comes to fights between factions, sadly the mechanic isn't limited to faction warfare but is the same that impact the noobs and I think it's a good thing that the amount of rage quitting new players seems to be massively reduced, at least according to what I have seen on the forum since the change.

Nevertheless, I see the issue with endgame players feeling the stakes to be to low when factions fighting amongst each other.
So I'll shamelessly reiterate a suggestion I made a while back:

What about linking rage with disabling the KO mechanic?
Enable a character to attack others would have the downside of combat defect leniency (KO + HF teleport) no longer being available.

Would that solve the issue for endgame warfare, while keeping noobs reasonably safe from being ganked for the lulz?



I think that would also be good.

Would make for some funny moments in early game where people spend all on UA and don't buy rage waiting to be attacked by opponent.

Then you most likely win because no 30K wasted in rage and if you lose you get to hearthfire anyway.

Beat the system :D

So yeah I think disabling KO linked to whether you have rage is a good idea, atleast significantly better than current game state :D

I remember Jorb had the idea of sustainable fights so people don't quit over lost characters but what it really did is make fights lose all their meaning and that's unfortunate.

I think best world would be raged linked to KO for noobies, and base attribute & ability cap at 500-1000 or so. Maybe 1500 because state funeral is a thing.

This way it still matters if you die but it isn't a reason of quitting either.

Can also choose to make 2 characters when you're a noob ; 1 with rage that takes care of people messing with you on alts or something and another one without rage but also ''strong'' for your terms so it can be used defensively (unless if they see through your mindgames and don't aggo) and not all is lost.
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby Zbyx » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:17 pm

calebsnow wrote:1)You regain 90% of stats if done properly


idk where from you have number 90% , so far i seen people only regain about 60% of their stats with state funeral which gives you the maximum you can get back.
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby DDDsDD999 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:51 pm

Granger wrote:What about linking rage with disabling the KO mechanic?
Enable a character to attack others would have the downside of combat defect leniency (KO + HF teleport) no longer being available.

Would that solve the issue for endgame warfare, while keeping noobs reasonably safe from being ganked for the lulz?

Idea I had regarding that: Buying rage means wounds you take in PvP are different than normal wounds. If you heal the wounds you're left with "Battle Scars" which diminish your combat stats by an amount, and are either impossible to heal or super resource intensive. To heal them should require a combination of realm authority, resources locked behind crafting (gold, silk, silver, steel, etc), and rare resources.

jorb wants it so losing one fight shouldn't mean your character is dead, but rather successive defeats. If you lose fights a couple times the battle scars would accumulate and kill you.

One thing that needs to be added is a REASON to pvp. Rust has air-drops that attract high-end players to congregate and fight for the resources. We need to have something like that required to heal those scars. Things like salt and healing roots would work if they weren't so common and easy to alt spam.

Also, pvp itself is pretty dumb in its current form, but that's a whole different issue.
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Re: FFS, Bring back Perma-death

Postby ChildhoodObesity » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:35 am

Aceb wrote:
ChildhoodObesity wrote:people can still die with 100% hhp if theyre hit at the same time with a big hhp dealing hit, its hard to time in actual fights unless you have the guy trapped like they did or if youre in a knarr/boat.


That would require some sick timing bro, or just skill. Not sure.

its extremely unlikely to happen in a real fight, and its really easy to do in a knarr without one its hard af and would be more luck probably unless theyre trapped like in the video ozzy posted
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