PvP Vision

[LadyGoo]

Due to the recent changes to the KO mechanics, the PvP should be re-balanced. The lack of diversity in weapons, fighting styles, warfare strategy, and tactics, vulnerability to the alts, faulty siege and etc. isn't going to attract the new players into PvP. Someone on RuForum has said that he didn't want to dive into PvP since it looks like plain running around and killing people 1 by 1. So, the current PvP isn't that fun for the people who are interested in it, not really interesting for the people who are new to the game either.

IMHO, people should be able to use different weapons according to the situation on the battlefield.
Useful weapons:
- Battle Axe of 12th Bay
- Steel sword + shield/bucket of water
- Bronze sword (early game) + shield/bucket of water

Neglected weapons:
- Bow (badly nerfed)
- Spear (badly nerfed)
- Sling (badly nerfed)
- Wrought Iron sword
- Metal Axe (you cannot even through it)
- Bronze sword (late game)

Planning to implement:
- Double handed sword (assumption based on Valhalla)
- Battle Hammer (or just the sledgehammer)

My view on the battlefield:
- The battle archery should also require the strength (it's not easy to pull a war bow) as well;
- Remove the ratio of archer's perc. vs the enemy's agi. It's a nonsense. People should be able to deflect the arrows with their shields or armour only. Ideally, it should take 4 full-meter close-distance arrow shots to KO someone. Since archery doesn't remove the HHP, you would prefer to be KOed by an archer, rather than get killed while being chased by b12 guys.
- Spears should return to the game as well. You can equip it into 2 hands or 1. With 1 hand you can use it only as a melee weapon with higher "sting" modifier + shield. Without the shield you should be able to through it. It should take 3 shots to KO someone as well (you cannot really carry that many spears in your backpack).
- The fyrdsman's sword should do more HHP damage.
-You should be able to use 2 bronze swords at a time for 1.5-1.3 modifier for melee moves.
- Make the Battle Hammer dependent on UA, not Melee.

Battle Decks:
- implement moves that would allow you to fight with either full Melee or full UA decks. Therefore, people would be able to catch up faster (nowadays you've got to have certain amount of ua to fight as a melee fighter);

There is also a need for the teamplay (credit to Jordancoles) to make the game more fun tactically: we used to use the coin stacking in couples for the purpose of the defence. That has been nerfed. However, there was also an opportunity and the biggest problem for the H&H fighting system - being unable to help your comrade if he/she is running low on defence. There is nothing you can do if the person is cornered and bodyblocked by alts and mains. Therefore, instead of looking and feeling like classical medieval war conflict, the hafen's PvP turns into outrun - corner - KO - run - run - drink - run - use a move. It doesn't look seductive to the new players, as well as the old ones either.

Some ideas for teamplay fighting:
- shield up amplifier and modifier if you are next to a person with a shield. So, if you are a guy with b12 next to a guy with a shield, he will transfer some of his shield up defense % on you. If you're a shieldman next to a shieldman, that effect multiplies to a certain amount. If you're being attacked by the archer and you are standing behind the shieldman within 2 tiles, the arrows should be blocked;
- transfer some temporary SHP to your teammate via hearth magic or opium/ or bard's song/bannerman;
- creating a new banner system (roleplay, kingdoms enhancement). Your king can assign the kingdom's banners. The bannerman creates certain buff around himself while holding it (determined by the kingdom buffs). Could be fun with the combination of some music;
- ability to knockback someone by a shield by 1 tile, so you will be able to avoid the bodyblocks;
- the wrought iron sword gives a % agility boost when using MC abilities, but this only works when the damage is being dealt by the sword itself. Dual weilding would be viable if it weren't for this. Zero reason to ever sting/cleave with a wrought iron sword. Would be nice if it was majorly an offhand.
- consider balancing the KO thing more. So it will still feel dangerous to fight, but also you'd be in a good shape after dying (inheritance mechanic, make numening much easier).
- made some moves like Opportunity Knocks efficiency reliant on credos, so you won't have the swarm of alts 0-ing your def, while the mains would do the final blow.

Archery:
- different types of bows. Horseback bow for better aim while mounted, less damage. Longbow for higher damage. Hunter's bow with high damage only if the target has no armor and etc.
- it would be nice to have some archery-related moves (credit to Dante). For instance: 1. Powerful shot (it does more dmg, takes more time for a full aim); 2. Long shot (fast aiming at big distances, but low dmg); 3. Stunning shot (needs more str, agi and perc than your enemies have / if the arrow hits the target, it will slows down for 0,5-1,5 sec. This shot has a chance of being successful. Shooting at the back of the enemy increases the chance).

[DDDsDD999]

I definitely think there needs to be some team-play moves in combat. Would make things way more interesting and interactive.

I don't get why you want to push the bronze sword so much. It's literally the same as a steel sword but made from an inferior metal. It's supposed to just be used until you get steel. Same with the wrought iron sword.

Archery needs some interaction with the combat system. It's just unbalanceable when it's entirely out of the scope of the combat system.

[ChildhoodObesity]

My view on the battlefield:
- The battle archery should also require the strength (it's not easy to pull a war bow) as well;
- Remove the ratio of archer's perc. vs the enemy's agi. It's a nonsense. People should be able to deflect the arrows with their shields or armour only. Ideally, it should take 4 full-meter close-distance arrow shots to KO someone. Since archery doesn't remove the HHP, you would prefer to be KOed by an archer, rather than get killed while being chased by b12 guys.
- Spears should return to the game as well. You can equip it into 2 hands or 1. With 1 hand you can use it only as a melee weapon with higher "sting" modifier + shield. Without the shield you should be able to through it. It should take 3 shots to KO someone as well (you cannot really carry that many spears in your backpack).

how 2 win in combat, multiple people with bows all shoot same guy, instant ko. FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!

this was probably the most broken bullshit ive ever seen in this whole game, if you wanna add archery it needs to be tied into the combat system some how perhaps a new color or something. its just so bullshit that you can bypass an entire somewhat complex combat system by pressing a hotkey, clicking on a portrait, and clicking again AND EVEN THEN PEOPLE BOTTED IT XD

i agree having archers in combat should be a thing prob but idk i think it needs a huge rework from what we have always seen

[dafels]

My view on the battlefield:
- The battle archery should also require the strength (it's not easy to pull a war bow) as well;
- Remove the ratio of archer's perc. vs the enemy's agi. It's a nonsense. People should be able to deflect the arrows with their shields or armour only. Ideally, it should take 4 full-meter close-distance arrow shots to KO someone. Since archery doesn't remove the HHP, you would prefer to be KOed by an archer, rather than get killed while being chased by b12 guys.
- Spears should return to the game as well. You can equip it into 2 hands or 1. With 1 hand you can use it only as a melee weapon with higher "sting" modifier + shield. Without the shield you should be able to through it. It should take 3 shots to KO someone as well (you cannot really carry that many spears in your backpack).

how 2 win in combat, multiple people with bows all shoot same guy, instant ko. FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!

agreed, i still remember fights with 5-6 archers, they easily dominated, it was so unbalanced, glad its trash right now

[ven]

Fyrdsman sword should be just a dagger really. With different moves or some other dynamic to keep it useful in the late game at high qualities.

And I understand this kind of thing works best in turn-based combat and in haven everything happens too fast, but I still wish there were more options to use terrain tactically, like positioning barrels, carts, wooden hedgehogs, fire, height etc.

[LadyGoo]

Fyrdsman sword should be just a dagger really. With different moves or some other dynamic to keep it useful in the late game at high qualities.

And I understand this kind of thing works best in turn-based combat and in haven everything happens too fast, but I still wish there were more options to use terrain tactically, like positioning barrels, carts, wooden hedgehogs, fire, height etc.

Actually, that has been used for our sieges: we would block our catapults with logs of wood and bushes. But yeah, it would be nice to have some modifiers working based on the difference of positioning.

[spawningmink]

Great. now I can shoot you and watch you port to HF rather then chase you down with a b12.....both times bows were brought back they were OP as fuck

better hope I dont find you in game or I will send you to HearthFire with some wounds!

[jordancoles]

I definitely want more teamplay. Currently the only way to peel enemies off of a guy being focused is to either apply pressure to them yourself, or to bodyblock.
Body-blocking is much harder now because of the pushout mechanic and you can't apply enough pressure in the case of multiple people vs you and your buddy

Being able to sacrifice some HP to lend a hand to a teammate or being able to increase your own openings to lower theirs (amount based on your ua/mc or CHA vs theirs to avoid alt spams) would be nice.

I also really like the bard/support play-style. Bannermen would be cool.

In Legacy the "support" role was the party leader and they could give IP or combat weight using Stern order and whatnot. Later on in Legacy's lifespan sword-wielders took more of a support role due to the sword nerf.
A sword guy could lower defenses using sting so that the heavy hitters could finish the job.
By combining these two support roles, a sword and shield guy was able to lower defenses and hand IP/weight to his teammates. I feel that it was a very nice niche to fill.

It was fun

[Kaios]

Custom clients, bots and scripts ruined combat, that's why legacy style combat won't ever work any more. It was good back then because the player-base was more naive towards the advantages of custom clients and the possibilities that went along with having an alt follow around a main fighter for support. Now the devs have to devise new combat implementations that avoid the advantages of something as simple as defensive moves costing IP and building that IP on an ally, for example.

A support role would be great if it could be balanced but in this current iteration of the game I fail to see how it would be possible to completely balance out any sort of support role without first removing the innate advantages that come along with having privatized custom clients filled with features not available to the majority of players which is another task itself. All I can think of when I read a suggestion like "being able to sacrifice some HP to lend a hand to a teammate or being able to increase your own openings to lower theirs" is players using alts to do this rather than main characters.

I wish pvp could be fun and be more skill-based than stat-based but I just don't ever see it happening at this point.

[blank]

+1 i like the idea about 2H sword, also spears do need to be buffed, we need more maneuvers as well for MC and maybe more moves that are MC specific seeing how there are way more UA moves. also weapons like halberds are cool too and could have a special when it hits a person like 2 blocks away??