Add flanking to combat

[Robben_DuMarsch]

I recently watched these videos: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=59067
I've tried to show videos like the ones above to players who play PvP centric MMOs that look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jAhSsvcFec
I read the general sentiments in threads like this one: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=59018




Problem #1: Combat is frequently regarded as a mere matter of stat vs stats, without much room for skilled play in it's current incarnation.
Problem #2: Group combat looks visually unappealing, it's difficult to show video recordings of Haven combat to players from other games and explain how intense the fights are. They simply see people running towards and away from one another, until eventually red signs indicate damage being taken and someone drops, usually from a movement mistake.


Proposed solution #1:
Remember how shields mitigated ranged damage up 50% to shots in the front, down to 0% for shots in the rear, with an "in-between" percentage for shots at varying angles from the side?
Make it so that openings are 20% reduced if the attack is coming from the front, 40% increased if coming from the rear, and 10% increased from the straight side.
Proposed solution #2:
In concert with #1, add an ability called "Lunge" that allows a hearthling to quickly speed up to execute an attack in short range. This should be on a short cooldown, and limited to nearby enemies within several feet, and it must be paired with executing an attack so it can't be used to flee, but instead causes you to path straight towards the enemy you are attacking at increased speed. The objective is to allow attacks of opportunity on an enemy close to melee range that is running from you.
Proposed solution #3:
In concert with #2, you can activate an ability called "drop your arms and flee!" As the Spartan lady said in that movie, you should come back with your shield or on it. Against her wishes in this case, you drop your weapons/tools to the ground, including those in your backpacks, and gain immunity from "lunge" attacks. This will allow people who wish to flee the ability to do so as before, but without incentive to keep running until they can turn around and coordinate attacks on an out of position opponent.

Hypothesis:
There is increased incentive to stand and fight your opponents in the form of significant damage mitigation for keeping them in front of you, and significant disadvantage if they land rear shots.
If you move in combat, you become more vulnerable to enemies lunging at you to create larger openings, but also gain the possibility of flanking enemies to create larger openings.
The meta will change to make battles look more like battles, which will make selling HnH PvP to gamers easier.
The reduction in permadeath in PvP means that the previous rationale behind making running so easy in combat is less compelling, if this suggestion would even arguably make running more difficult (See proposed solution #3).
Fighting will be more skill-based.
Lower stat characters will be less burdensome on PvP groups, as they won't simply take up space and act as a liability, but rather present good flanking opportunity, giving established fighting groups more reason to integrate newer or less developed characters.

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Great idea! lets make it so its even EASIER to gank noobs. oh and as a side effect those same noobs can go ahead and drop their weapons for me to take if they decide to run great plan

-1 i dont like it. sorry bro. i might be the only one, but skills vs skills will still play a huge part in this. you just made it even easier to dunk people and take there stuff even if they run. lel

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Great idea! lets make it so its even EASIER to gank noobs. oh and as a side effect those same noobs can go ahead and drop their weapons for me to take if they decide to run great plan

-1 i dont like it. sorry bro. i might be the only one, but skills vs skills will still play a huge part in this. you just made it even easier to dunk people and take there stuff even if they run. lel

This is perhaps a valid criticism, but I ask you to take a step back and evaluate the proposal as a whole.
As a newb/casual advocate, I had considered this possibility and included the "Drop your arms" mechanic and the proposed strict distance limitations on "Lunge" to those already close to melee range, rather than players running at a distance. These, taken together, will go far to minimize the potential impact on newbs or noncombatants attempting to run from combat. I don't believe that my proposal would cause a meaningful number of newbs to be downed in combat that would otherwise not already have been downed, but it's definitely a possibility.

I view the increased incentive to integrate newbs into your fighting force, and the improvements to the combat meta, as outweighing this potential downside.

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what if the "drop your arms" ability gave you a slight speed buff? i could see that work maybe?

[Robben_DuMarsch]

what if the "drop your arms" ability gave you a slight speed buff? i could see that work maybe?

If that were so it would make it extremely easy for *any* player to disengage from combat under *any* circumstance.
In the faction v faction fights that we see, there is already a very low mortality rate when a side fully routes.
If players were given such a speed buff, they may be able to avoid any fight they blundered into outnumbered while avoiding any penalties other than the loss of their weapons, which is trivial for a faction.

I think there's already enough safety built in to this proposal that players who genuinely try to disengage are not penalized unduly harshly, nor given substantially less odds at doing so than under the current combat system.

[NOOBY93]

there is already a very low mortality rate when a side fully routes.

hmm wouldn't rly say very low unless you count only deaths and not KOs but plenty of people get KO'd or killed in a fight, I do agree that there shouldnt be even more fuckin speed buffs

[dafels]

I liked that the direction of from where the attack is coming would matter, but then there would be client features that would not let that happen in 1v1s atleast. Other than that, everything else there is trash.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Directional weight to attacks is definitely the largest part of my proposal, and I do think it could stand on its own.
Without the lunging, however, I predict the combat meta will be much like in W7 when the character running in movement combat would simply stop moving when a strike was imminent to tank the blow. It will be similar here, but it would merely require facing your opponent in time with his attack.

Another alternative to lunging would be to limit the rate that a character can change direction in combat. In real life, turning your back to your opponent is dangerous because your guard is unavailable... you need to physically maneuver your body to bring your arms (and therefore guard) back to bear, otherwise your opponent may strike you with no defense nor threat of counterattack. In HnH, returning to facing your opponent (and your ability to strike back at targets behind you) is instantaneous with the click of a button. A limitation on the speed that your character could turn its facing in combat would recreate that same vulnerability.

I prefer lunging, because I guarantee players will bitch if their movement feels less responsive in combat.
The end goal is to give a strong incentive to players to stand their ground in combat under certain circumstances, and to remove much of the strategic benefit that is given to the group that kites their assailants.
Perhaps someone more clever than I can devise a more palatable way to do that.

[dafels]

rear attacks would be so op in ganks, there is no way to clip your enemy right now like there was before... there would need to be a way to stop the enemy movement that is locked on your back somehow...

[ctopolon3]

mb weapon in hands = speed down, and more attributes = less speed ?
about

PvP centric MMOs that look like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jAhSsvcFec

just need add lancers & make archers great again, also need balance decks & styles (not only str+unarm+b12+fullArmor)