Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby skltnk00 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:03 pm

First time you read about this game.

You imagine a balanced lifelike world. And it appears so. But only a few days after you've started.

Then it appears you've built almost everything possible. You have a base. A palisade. Have them crops. Breeding animals. You are close to make steel.
But the picture that comes to you next isn't that pretty.
You realize that soon you'll have only 1 thing ahead - grinding for better qualities. But why would you do that - you ask yourself.
To compete with others, right? Wrong. They have attributes meassured in thousands. :shock:
But where's all the player interaction, politics..
Where's pvp..
Apparently not for you..

Most of people who just started to play simply hooked because of permadeath idea. What's that? Where is that thing? You either drowned or killed by someone OP.

Something obviously is wrong..



So i thought about all that and i'm proud to present you my view on how to make this game GREAT, based on a few simple steps.

Core idea is to maintain rather than go to infinite numbers.

//Attributes and skills

Every character is loosing attributes throughout time.
You'll have to maintain your attributes rather than going to infinity.

Same for abilities - learn curiosities and maintain your abilities.
Go down on qualities of food and curiosities and your character eventually will weaken.

That's close to how it works in real life. The best balance you can get.

It'll be quite a task since everything is exposed to decay. ->

//Decay

Every item in the game has a quality, right?

Idea is to make things decay by losing qualities.
Over time - most of things, especially food.
Over usage - tools.
If the quality reaches 0 - tool breaks, food turns to spoil.

If you repair something - it'll increase or decrease the quality, based on quality of materials used.


Why qualities? - It fits perfectly.

Say we have a good quality sword. It's sharp, balanced well.
Now go bash things with it - not that sharp anymore, bend, and a hilt almost broke.

This will make a game much more complex thus significantly increasing the gameplay value.

Example with crops.

With decay: Plant the crops and whatch them grow cause when crops are at full grown stage they'll start to lose quality.
So you're better collect them ASAP.

How it works now: Just plant the crops.

Now count the number of activities that can be affected by decay. Here's our possible gameplay value multiplier.
And it is big.

//Aging system.

People age. So why doesn't hearthlings do.
Idea is to give Hearthlings a new variable for age representation. The older they get - the faster they lose attributes/abilities.
If they have lost 80% to the maximum average of attributes they have ever had - they die.
Of course it's possible to maintain those for some period of time but eventually death is inevitable.

//Inheritance cap

Idea is to cap the attributes using formula with maximum average stats and a length of life of your ancestor. Kinda like breeding.
Intended to make players survive for as long as possible. Thus rewarding playing smart and providing additional threat of degradation if acting stupid.


Props: - It was a problem to cap stats. Cause people would have nothing to do after some point. No more!
Now there's a cycle of life and death with a constant need to do things!

- Harder to have alts -> harder to have bots.

- Much more meaningful gameplay.

Of course all those things i mentioned work best if properly balanced.

Personally i think it's way too much when someone can single-handedly kill a bear with a bare hands.

The less is gap between abilities of players - the more players can compete with each other, making
world more interesting place, making the game more tasty for more people to come to play.



We can have a trully living and breathing world, where nothing is eternal and every action has a purpose.
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby arcolithe » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:11 pm

too complex of an algorithm for decay of characters, imo
especially with calculating scales of return, and at which point would be optimal.


The farming decay seems easy and reasonable, but it will lose lackluster to the few farmvillers in this game
I like the repair concept, except the best way to make a good quality item is to make it from scratch. Diminishing returns should be applied to repairing items to increase quality versus building a new one from scratch to increase quality.

The idea is fancy though.
+1
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby NOOBY93 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:58 pm

+1 for decay on everything, very clever idea. -1 on death by old age, most unfun mechanic in real life and would probably be an extremely shitty mechanic in the game, with hearthlings falling into a cyber-depression and middle age crisis, thinking about why the fuck would they waste materials on keeping their stats up if they're gonna die soon anyway, so the hearthling uses all his materials on bringing up a new character, the child. Unfun.

(also not only does decay make newcomers be on even ground sort of, but it also makes animals and monsters (trolls, slimes) actually relevant instead of being 1shotted after 2 months)

I'd suggest decay to go faster the higher stats you have, so that new players aren't stuck maintaining their 15 stats while others maintain their 500. This would be practically a statcap, but alting would not be possible (or that easy) because all of the chars that reach the "cap" need to be maintained there or they go down fast. This idea is JUICY.
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby Ozzy123 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:29 pm

skltnk00 wrote:nding for better qualities. But why would you do that - you ask yourself.
To compete with others, right? Wrong. They have attributes meassured in thousands. :shock:
But where's all the player interaction, politics..
Where's pvp..
Apparently not for you..


well that should be the game description @ homepage TBH
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viruseg wrote:Kill all new players for no reason. Polish scum came running and killed me with a crowd. Suck fuck fucks..
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:37 pm

None of this really solves any of the problems. The same ideas have been discussed over and over again over the years.
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby tnrmnv » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:50 am

MagicManICT wrote:None of this really solves any of the problems. The same ideas have been discussed over and over again over the years.


Why?
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby shubla » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:15 am

solution:

add random decay to claims

so much decay that you have to rebuild everything every week

infinite gameplay
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby Granger » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:32 am

tnrmnv wrote:
MagicManICT wrote:None of this really solves any of the problems. The same ideas have been discussed over and over again over the years.


Why?


No consensus (or a beginning of one) could be reached, as some expressed their inability to even consider considering a change in that regard.
See the post of Shubla directly above for a specimen.
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby Axatros » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:47 pm

//Attributes and skills

Every character is loosing attributes throughout time.
You'll have to maintain your attributes rather than going to infinity.

Nope! This idea sucks!
The game should be much harder in its beggining state! It's too easy to survive in Haven & Hearth that's why people achieve everything so fast and then only farm LP to obtain better stats!



//Decay

Every item in the game has a quality, right?

Idea is to make things decay by losing qualities.
Over time - most of things, especially food.
Over usage - tools.
If the quality reaches 0 - tool breaks, food turns to spoil.

If you repair something - it'll increase or decrease the quality, based on quality of materials used.


Why qualities? - It fits perfectly.

Say we have a good quality sword. It's sharp, balanced well.
Now go bash things with it - not that sharp anymore, bend, and a hilt almost broke.

The quality once reached should stay the same at it was but overusing a sword should damage and weaken it!
Just like with Health Points System: (SHP/HHP/MHP)
Swords, tools etc. should have their own HP bar, the lower the HP the lower the quality but if you fully fix for example a sword it should reach back its original quality! Repairing a tool with low QL material should never be able to lower the QL, only to very, very slighly fix it.


//Aging system.

People age. So why doesn't hearthlings do.
Idea is to give Hearthlings a new variable for age representation. The older they get - the faster they lose attributes/abilities.
If they have lost 80% to the maximum average of attributes they have ever had - they die.
Of course it's possible to maintain those for some period of time but eventually death is inevitable.

Nope! That's pain in the ass bullshit mechanic, you should only grow a beard after a specific time and need to shave it or not like real Northerns.
Pixel art is and always will be better than this plastic looking Hafen you gave us here.
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Re: Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

Postby skltnk00 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:39 pm

Axatros wrote://Attributes and skills


Nope! This idea sucks!
The game should be much harder in its beggining state! It's too easy to survive in Haven & Hearth that's why people achieve everything so fast and then only farm LP to obtain better stats!



The quality once reached should stay the same at it was but overusing a sword should damage and weaken it!
Just like with Health Points System: (SHP/HHP/MHP)
Swords, tools etc. should have their own HP bar, the lower the HP the lower the quality but if you fully fix for example a sword it should reach back its original quality! Repairing a tool with low QL material should never be able to lower the QL, only to very, very slighly fix it.




Nope! That's pain in the ass bullshit mechanic, you should only grow a beard after a specific time and need to shave it or not like real Northerns.



Well you have absolutely no arguments. Please provide any.

Here's template:
1) This idea sucks.
2) Why it sucks. (Arguments here) :!:
3) Here's how i think it needs to be done.

You went from 1 to 3 without using 2. Say why you think it sucks. Cuz having your opinion in a big font doesn't automaticaly make you right.
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