Road mechanic rework / remove teleportation

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Road mechanic rework / remove teleportation

Postby Granger » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:11 am

loftar wrote:I've actually considered making it so that you can teleport with the cart. The arguments against it have primarily been that it detracts from other mechanics like bulls with packracks, or wagons.

Do away with teleportation on roads but make the turn points on roads give a speed boost when 'traveling' the path (so the character goes reasonably Sonic), with the usual speed modifiers from ground type. The boost should give 1-2 levels of speed (without increase of stamina drain, preferably removing it nearly completely on paved ground).
Make wagons useable with 'follow' of paths (which would imply that they would also work with travel) and carts able to cross shallow water and to follow you through cave entrances.

Preferably make cave entrances and mine holes allow a fluent transmission between levels, like employing steep slope that takes longer to cross than average map loading time - entering the slope starts loading the map on the other side, being in the middle tiles only shows the tunnel up/down. This should enable transit with attached stuff.

EDIT: Detailed mechanic concept here (with a slight update to it regarding the direction trails are constructed in).
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby ricky » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:28 am

Granger wrote:Do away with teleportation on roads but make the turn points on roads give a speed boost when 'traveling' the path (so the character goes reasonably Sonic), with the usual speed modifiers from ground type. The boost should give 1-2 levels of speed (without increase of stamina drain, preferably removing it nearly completely on paved ground).
Make wagons useable with 'follow' of paths (which would imply that they would also work with travel) and carts able to cross shallow water and to follow you through cave entrances.



I've supported this idea for a long time, even though it presents many problems of it's own. I feel that roads are currently abused too all hell and leave the map looking like a desecrated landscape. I would like to see the threshold of effort for creating roads increased substantially, either by requiring more expensive materials to create or by forcing the player to clear/pave/develop before they can build.
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby pheonix » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am

Granger wrote:Preferably make cave entrances and mine holes allow a fluent transmission between levels, like employing steep slope that takes longer to cross than average map loading time - entering the slope starts loading the map on the other side, being in the middle tiles only shows the tunnel up/down. This should enable transit with attached stuff.


Ive often thought it would make life so much easier and make a lot of sense to have the ability to construct mining cages to transport huge amounts of ore tot he surface instead of having to use bulls or boats you could mine on a level, load a cage of say 20 slots with your wheelbarrows and winch it up to your smelting base.
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby MrPunchers » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:55 am

Granger wrote:
loftar wrote:I've actually considered making it so that you can teleport with the cart. The arguments against it have primarily been that it detracts from other mechanics like bulls with packracks, or wagons.

Do away with teleportation on roads but make the turn points on roads give a speed boost when 'traveling' the path (so the character goes reasonably Sonic), with the usual speed modifiers from ground type. The boost should give 1-2 levels of speed (without increase of stamina drain, preferably removing it nearly completely on paved ground).
Make wagons useable with 'follow' of paths (which would imply that they would also work with travel) and carts able to cross shallow water and to follow you through cave entrances.

Preferably make cave entrances and mine holes allow a fluent transmission between levels, like employing steep slope that takes longer to cross than average map loading time - entering the slope starts loading the map on the other side, being in the middle tiles only shows the tunnel up/down. This should enable transit with attached stuff.

This but only if we can clip through the road's posts so we can run through em.
Last edited by Granger on Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed broken tag
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby Granger » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:04 am

MrPunchers wrote:This but only if we can clip through the road's posts so we can run through em.

No. Fuck the ones who had setup roads that they can only be traveled (but not be followed).
It'll still give problems with any road that crosses water.
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby Lunarius_Haberdash » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:39 am

Granger wrote:
MrPunchers wrote:This but only if we can clip through the road's posts so we can run through em.

No. Fuck the ones who had setup roads that they can only be traveled (but not be followed).
It'll still give problems with any road that crosses water.


Wait, something here doesn't follow. Granger mate, are you saying that you're encouraging the behavior of setting up roads to only be able to be traveled? Otherwise his solution fixes exactly that.
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby loftar » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:50 am

Lunarius_Haberdash wrote:Wait, something here doesn't follow. Granger mate, are you saying that you're encouraging the behavior of setting up roads to only be able to be traveled? Otherwise his solution fixes exactly that.

No, he's just saying that it shouldn't be possible to pass through milestones whether when travelling or following, which I agree with. The current situation where travelling along roads works even though the milestones are in the way is actually a bug, and I'm not sure why it is that way (haven't looked into it yet). I just don't really want to fix that bug mid-world.

ricky wrote:[...]or by forcing the player to clear/pave/develop before they can build.

One thing I've considered on that theme is to make it so that road travel entails travel weariness per the usual travel-weariness mechanic, but that paving the road substantially decreases or even eliminates said travel weariness.
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby AntiBlitz » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:49 am

loftar wrote:One thing I've considered on that theme is to make it so that road travel entails travel weariness per the usual travel-weariness mechanic, but that paving the road substantially decreases or even eliminates said travel weariness.


Ooh, I like the sound of that, I would love to see actual paving, tho my god I remember some of the projects from world 7 with road paving. Could the roads being heavily traveled cause the sort of "game trail" dirt effect, because when I entered this world, I had initially thought they were just that.
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby Lunarius_Haberdash » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:02 am

loftar wrote:No, he's just saying that it shouldn't be possible to pass through milestones whether when travelling or following, which I agree with. The current situation where travelling along roads works even though the milestones are in the way is actually a bug, and I'm not sure why it is that way (haven't looked into it yet). I just don't really want to fix that bug mid-world.


I like this... I like this a lot.

loftar wrote:One thing I've considered on that theme is to make it so that road travel entails travel weariness per the usual travel-weariness mechanic, but that paving the road substantially decreases or even eliminates said travel weariness.


I'd definitely encourage you to make it 'reduces significantly'. Though if you want to take it a step further, what you make the road out of could matter. Dirt path? Some weariness. Stone path? Significant Weariness, Cobblestone? Lots of weariness. (Cobblestone in this case = Clay + Sand + Stone/Brick/Additional Clay. Bake it, and it turns into a brick the color of the 3rd material used to make it.)

Make building roads something that requires a serious investment. The work of weeks, not mere days, minutes, or hours.
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Re: Travois: Land-Based Boat Replacement

Postby Potjeh » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:18 am

loftar wrote:One thing I've considered on that theme is to make it so that road travel entails travel weariness per the usual travel-weariness mechanic, but that paving the road substantially decreases or even eliminates said travel weariness.

OMG yes please! Could you please do this at the next world reset?

Also, have you considered allowing travel from any point on a road to any other point on the same road, as long as you have the route mapped? Destination could be selected on the Ctrl+A map. IMO this would make road layouts a lot more realistic, and the benefit would offset the increased construction cost (flattening & paving).

Anyway, I think TW cost should depend on vehicle used and road width. So on foot you'd only need a one wide paved path to eliminate TW, with animals in tow two tiles, with cart three and with wagon four.
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