I don't know how is the "state of art" of studying the hunger & satiations and the symbels, so I would like to discuss it more again. I don't remember on reading anything that it was like, for me at least, a good change.
Just bringing the stuff here:
Why we eat? To increase stats; To increase energy;
What is hunger? Hunger is a modifier, based on tiers, that increases the number of stats gain each time we eat;
What is symbel? Everytime we eat we change a bit our hunger level, the symbel reduces the amount of hunger increases and the amount of stats gains too;
What is satiations? They're specific class of food that, as you eat, turn the food less appetizing and then reduces the amount of stat gain.
So where is our problems?
Symbels seems to decrease too much the hunger at higher levels, making players eating a lot of food too efficiently; Hunger tiers, as it barely increases while eating and are kept as "ravenous", makes food stats really high. Satiations, when players are settled, are just annoying because you usually "just have" to drink some of ours drinks to reset our main food.
I really want to discuss this on this thread, but I want to start with a suggestion regarding symbels and satiations.
Suggestion:
Satiations
I was wondering about the types of starvations that we got, and I guess that any character would focus on keeping their alimentation balanced just to keep them healthy. And what was "being healthy"? Each food class has it's own benefits regards vitamins and minerals, so what If we give a small bonus for any character that have each food class on a "high" level and giving debuffs when that same class are in a lower level. So as a small example I would suggest this:
Keeping the starvation of each type above 100% make your character get a specific bonus basead on the type of stavation, and, if the starvation gets lower than 40% it should give debuffs. The buffs that i thought was like this:
Bread Bread is based on a simple type of carbohydrates, like sugars and flour, and on a diet they're just the easiest and quickiest type of energy for our bodies. So, when you're on a nice level of carbohydrates you should be able to recover quickier from anything that drains your energy, as stamina! Buff: If above of 100%, energy drain to recover stamina is lowered by 25%. Debuff: If lower than 40%, energy drain to recover stamina is increased by 25%.
Dairy and Cheese Milk is rich in a lot of vitamins, but it is really famous for it's calcium. Calcium is useful for a lot of things like heart beat and nevours signals, but it's necessary for strong bones and teeths. Since it can be dangerous when you're young to grow without calcium, I guess his buff should be more useful early game Buff: If above of 100%, increases the base armor class by 5. ( 10 with both ) Debuff: If lower than 40%, increases the chance to get Something Broken, Blunt trauma and Swollen Bumps.
Fish When I think about fish, omega-3 just pops in my mind. Omega-3 is really famous for increasing our learning capacity. Sooooo Buff: If above of 100%, increases the amount of LP gain when studying any curiosity by 25%. Debuff: If lower of 40%, decreases the amount of LP gain when studying any curiosity by 25%.
Fruit and berries Fruits and vegetables are know by theirs vitamins, but not all fruits have all vitamins. So I thought about spliting some of their benefits from most vitamins between fruits and vegetables. Buff: If above of 100%, increases the regeneration rate of SHP; Debuff: If lower of 40%, decreases the regeneration rate of SHP
Vegetables The same as above, but focused on HHP damage. Buff: If above of 100%, increases the regeneration rate of wounds; Debuff: If lower of 40%, decreases the regeneration rate of HHP.
Meat For me, the most important nutrient on meat are proteins. Proteins are know for increasing the regeneration rate of muscles and increasing their resistance. Buff: If above of 100%, decreases most of HHP damage that you would receive by 2 ( HHP damage should never be 0 on my opinion). Debuff: If lower of 100%, increases the chance of HHP damage on Blunt Trauma, Bruises, Knicks & Knacks, Punch Sore and Swollen Bumps.
Tea When I think about tea a think about relaxing. When I'm relaxed, i'm prone to do any job with more concentration. Buff: If above of 100%, increase all softcaps( on crafting) by 5. Debuff: I really don't want to give a debuff for those don't want to drink tea
Wine and Beer Here on Brazil we got a phrase: Any good story was started like "One day I was eating a salad...". Alcool are for events, parties and... discoveries! Buff: If above of 100%, increases chance of activating experience events. Debuff: As with tea, I really don't want to give a debuff for it.
Poultry and Nuts I left those together because i can't think on more fun options that makes sense to them. Nuts usually increase the absorption of most vitamins because they're rich in minor minerals, and when I think about poultry cholesterol really pops on my mind and they do "the same job", increasing our bile quality wich helps in absorption of most vitamins. ( like increasing bioavailabilty) Buff: If above of 100%, increases the chance to increase satiations when you eat anything. Debuff: If lower than 40%, decreases the chance of increasing satiations when you eat.
Game, forage and sausage Here my creativity starts fading, but I guess you guys could help me . I still need to give "buffs and debuffs".
Being healthy I guess any character that has a balanced diet should be rewarded. If any player has more than 10 satiations above 100%, it should receive +50% convenience bonus. And if they have 10 satations lower than 40%, it should receive a -20% convenience penalty.
Satiation decreasing math part I just explained how they should work, but how they should increase? How should it decrease? Well I guess everytime you eat any food of each type, it should have A CHANCE to increase their satation level. But to decrease, I guess it should be bounded with energy. So, let's find something that makes kind of a sense just to start?
Here comes some math! Our max energy is 9999 and it's better to keep it above 2000. So, any character should use 7999 energy safetly. With wine, tea and daily as normal satations we get 17 satiations on total. Then I want that everytime you use X amount of energy one point of a random satation should be decreased. So, let's find and X that fits our needs
I guess this 7999 energy points should be used daily ( on game) and your character should "weekly" maintain their life quality. So, from a good health ( everything on 100%) and eating nothing they should be unhealthy ( everything below 40%) on 7 days.
Total energy: 7 days * 7999 energy = 55993 energy points. Each satiation difference from healthy to unhealthy :100% (healthy) - 40 % (unhealthy) = 60%. Total of satation points : 17 satiation types * 60 (percent to be unhealthy) = 1020
Energy per satiation decay = 55993( energy points ) /1020( total satation points ) = 54,89 energy per satation points. So I guess each time you lose 55 energy points you should decrease a random satation.
Symbel
Instead of decreasing the hunger modifier as it's now, it should increase the chance to proc the satation bonus when eating something. It's really like we do anyway, when we want to just pump our energy, we just take a snack or eat anything without even preparing our tables. But everytime we want to eat something more sophisticated we usually go to a restaurant or we do on our homes taking our nicest glass and our shiniest fork. This would even open some space for people building restaurants .
Hunger Here I really don't know what to suggest to change, I really like the fact that when you're ravenous you should gain bonus on eating, but I think being ravenous all the time is a problem. I guess it should just be lowered both extremes on their tiers, like Ravenous should give 150% bonus ( instead of 300) but increasing the satiation gain from everything and being overstuffed should be 50% instead of 10% ( this world everyone is always ravenous with 300%, making the worst case as 50% doens't seems that bad).
As I said from the start, I don't really want that this should be "The biggest solution", but I don't find heated discussions about it and I guess that showing some ideas may help other players to bring some solutions that would be really nice for us. So, what do you think? What do you don't like on the current system? What you didn't liked on my suggestion? What do you would like to see around? Come on, let's talk!
Edit1: Links from other topics abouts satiations Edit2: I why try to bring to this page the "main" discussion" from each of those topics links, so everyone that read it can rewind what has already been said. viewtopic.php?f=48&t=57669&p=762656&hilit=Satiation#p762656
Massa started the topic by asking why satiations exist, since everyone can spam drinks to reset everything that they want to eat makes it useless; Loftar: Mostly to encourage some variety in eating; it's a fair bit brain-dead to just stuff a character full of the exact same thing over and over again. Partly also to enable some puzzle-playing in eating, but I'm not entirely convinced satiations currently do the best possible job in that department. Smartins: Simply is better...why not just satiate itself and unsatiate the others? GamingRAM: I still think diet should contribute the *growth* of a character rather than strictly the means to an end. Sevenless: Make satiations heal over time (fairly rapidly, like back to full in 24 hours), make drinks a consumable buff (eating a buffed item reduces the buff). Kaios: One of the major issues with the 300% FEP gain is that many players will neglect to eat food unless they are at ravenous stage and this should not be the case. svino: The system is intended to punish players who eat only 1 food for a specific stat, however it doesn't work so well, because #1: Endgame players now only eat food categories where they can reset the satiations through abusing the drinking system #2: Some players do not enjoy eating at all because the satiation and hunger system seems so complicated. Maybe instead of punishing players who eat the same food over and over, a new system could reward people who dare to play the variety game? Fierce_deity: Currently the satiation system works more off of punishment than anything else, or it tries to. I think that rather than ever receive negative satiations for things, we just start to desire other foods more when focusing too much on anything. It would be an overtime thing that increases the FEPs for a given food type. Could be random, like as if from craving. A limited amount of food types can be craved at once as well. Something along those lines seems like a good direction to me.( on the thread he put an example). Granger: I would go so far to say that the reset mechanic should be removed completely and instead the effect be turned into a negative for the stuff you consume with the same amount of percent points be given to 2-3 others areas (randomly selected from a bigger list attached to the food you ate/drunk) as a positive for the total amount of %points always being the same. Slurmp: I think satiations were a great idea, only they're very difficult to reset. I would say if you want to keep them, let the penalties "decay" over time. dafels: useless mechanic, i am pretty sure it was meant to be implemented so botters and nolifers couldn't gain stats too fast, but they can just ignore them pretty much with cupboards of salt/drinks.
razfen starts the topic with ideas for food rework:
razfen: -hunger and satiations are gone lel -food now tiered, (like ants and forageables being bottom tier, highest stage cheeses top tier for instance), each tier has a limit after which it cannot give a FEP event. This limit is increased by quality. FEP points, as they are now, are gone. Stats food has are its FEP attribute chances, energy filled, and attribute limit. -FEP events are tied to energy, every time a food replenishes x amount of energy while feasting on a table gives a FEP event. The amount of energy refill required doesn't change. Higher tier foods give less energy, but can have higher limits.
Granger: So basically your suggestion boils down to 'eat everything that is of higher q than the stat you want to raise, after that eat only to regain energy'? Wouldn't this bring us directly back (in case we've been away from it at all) to the one optimal diet, involving only a few food types with all the others obsoleted?
Sevenless: I feel like the cueewnr system would work fine if hunger satiations were tweaked: Hunger is gone, symbel reworked to accomodate Satiations repair over time to the tune of 100% in 24 hours foods satiate the foodgroup they're part of, nothing reduces the amount satiations damage value of satiation tweaked to balance this system drinking gives % FEP buffs that are used up as the appropriate foods are eaten.
Granger: Drinking working as a low (hunger) cost filler would be bad enough. Satiaations resetting every 24h, please no. It would make more sense if eating something would lower the benefit of eating another same while increasing the benefit for eating several other things, balanced to be a zero sum. IMHO.
DDDsDD999: Energy and FEPs should be almost entirely different systems. Having to fuck up your FEPs so you have energy just leads to alt slaves and bad gameplay. Having incentives for a wide variety of foods would be good, and was the point of satiations, but everyone, including jorb, knows it doesn't work out. As for the OP, I sorta like requiring higher quality foods in order to raise stats, but everything would need to rebalanced fairly hard. It also kills mid-tier players selling meh quality food in bulk.
Thedrah: i'd instead suggest another food such as adding another flour that reduces fep and increases energy:hunger ratio. such as flax seed flour or add a new plant like rice for new flour. so less incentive to have slave labor alts.
Sevenless: I'm fully in agreement that FEPs and energy shouldn't need to coincide. Lots of different ways to do that that have been suggested lately. Satiation reset would be mostly to encourage variety in spam eating. Noobs could eat 10 pieces of X and not worry about it, but power grinders would want to start varying what they eat per day after 10 pieces of food (numbers out of my ass here). Resetting daily is mostly so you never get the feeling of having fucked yourself for a week.
Valnar: Could have feasting be formally separated from eating. You only get energy from plain eating food, and you only get FEP from feasting on it. the FEPS would be coming from the ritual of eating rather than just eating the food.
Granger: Sounds broken for newly spawned non-alt characters. If feasting would, absolute best case when exploiting everyting, provide a 50% reduction in hunger generation and a 50% increase in FEP value it would be interesting enough to still do it but no longer that completely overpowered as it currently is.
Raiga bought a suggestion: Character progression is the only thing in game that doesn't heavily rely on quality. That’s the reason why one can grind stats as high as several thousands with everything else still being few hundreds Q at max. Moreover, at some point current system grants almost no reward for eating better food (the limit of dFEP/dQ is 0). So it is more effective to spam junk food in enormous quantities than try to increase its quality, and with hunger modifier from somewhat decent tableware being able to reach 1% it is possible to gobble non-stop. As it stands for now: more food > better food. Side result is that people are forced to have huge fields which are completely dull to manage so they use bots for that. Here are some thoughts on food system in order to make character’s attributes reasonable according to world’s current progress.
FEP gain. Food eaten caps your stats. To increase attributes you still have to fill FEP bar which size is equal to your highest stat. However, you only get food event points in certain attribute if quality of eaten item is higher than said attribute. For example, character with 100 STR and 10 AGI eats q40 cellar cheddar (16 STR+1, 8 AGI+2) and gets only 8 AGI+2 FEP. To increase STR over 100 he should find better q food. This will lead to generally lower stats, so you would not need that much FEP from single food item. Effective x10 FEP multiplier (3x125% satiation, 300% hunger and +70% FEP bonus from table) should be gone. Satiations. Can’t go more than 100%. Satiation no longer can be increased by drinking. Maximum satiation is now 100%. Reset mechanism stays the same - as soon as you get your fourth food group below 50%, the most satiated one is recovered back to 100%. Junk food, i.e. low q food that doesn’t give FEP, cannot change satiations, but still gives energy and fills hunger when eaten. Drinks. Buff the effective quality of certain food group. Drinks no longer modify the amount of FEP gained. Instead they increase cap for a certain food group – i.e. having 120% tea will allow you to reach 120 stats by eating q100 pies. Drink quality does matter. Satiation goes up by 0.1% per gulp and is capped at 10%*sqrt(Q/10). Drinks satiation resets along with the corresponding food group. The ‘Food’ group in now depends on spring water instead of tea. Hunger. Naturally increases over time and by salt only to 100%. Can be increased to 300% only by completing quests. ‘Stomach relief’ quest rewards should be rarer.
Pros: - Slow but steady progression (of course there are q300 bears day 1). - Overall lower stats. Hunting more challenging. - Easier to catch up for new players. - Crafting finally capped by skills. - Stat bonuses from credo are more valuable. - Smaller fields and less livestock to maintain. - Characters will have ALL their stats at the maximum level achievable by their industry – less incentive for alts. - Drinks are no longer a yes/no question. Low q drinks are still useful. - The headwaters can't be walled and are always worth checking. More drama. - You won’t ruin your FEP when eating to replenish energy. - Trading for food.
MrPunchers: No. Every post "reworking" the food system is completely ignoring the fact that the food system now isn't too bad, other than the compounding fep multipliers making stats insane. Perhaps you should critique and build upon the already fleshed out food system instead of creating an entirely new one?
Lagan: Make cooking something other that mass produce food. Give food more significance, make cooking a minigame when all conditions are met create a chef masterpiece.
ricky starts the topic with a suggestion( read it please ), there's no discussion about his suggestion and most comments are just asking to remove satiations at all.
ZeraTustrA: I love this game mechanic. It is unusual and pretty nice. However, now feast looks like grind, because of bad balanced and small amount content.It's not a secret that the most demanding of food are fighters, where competition is the highest. What does the ration of fighters look like now? It is salt + bonfire+wine/beer/milk/tea+ spam eating cheese or meat/apple/pumpkin pies, in most cases. It is worth noting that the implementation of the mechanics of variability of dishes significantly makes the process better. How about to diversify more in general? That's what I think about it: 1)Seafood. Fish - food available from the first days of the world, diverse in its FEP, but its relevance falls quickly enough.After an only one or two month of playing, practically no one eats fish. What dishes do we have with fish? Fishpie int+per+con(mostly) FEP food, it’s fine, but maybe its need more variety? Fishstics, i dont know it. Fish-specified dishes are fine. And what about fish stew, soups, balls and some more fish-specified dishes? Also in certain seasons the fish is a source of delicious and nutritious caviar. Boiled River Mussels - great food for crafters, but how about stopping spam eat/throwing them after searching for pearls and use as an ingredient in salad, baking, soup or even sauce. 2)Cheeses. Excellent mechanics of high-end, an interesting production process, a lot of +2 FEP of your choice, but their balance leaves much to be desired (especially for intermediate cheeses). I would very much like to see them in more complex dishes. Fish baked in the oven with cheese, or sandwiches, пreek salad with feta, cheese balls..? 3)Fruits and berries. Fruit pies is not enough! I like curd with fruit, milkshakes, fruit purees, dried fruits, i forget about a duck with apples and pork with a pear? Approximately the same applies to nuts. 4)Mushrooms. They are perfectly combined with any meat, and with cheese, the traditional ingredients of many stuffings. 5)Sausages. It is near of the edge of acceptable. Perhaps they need some kind of buff, de facto, they are much inferior than steaks, pies, but doing them is not easier. 6)Bread. You can diversify it, whole wheat bread with seeds and nuts, onion cakes, сiabatta,baguette with cheese etc. 7)Wild herbs and spices. Chivas, kvann, nettle,clover,thistle , and yarrow - this is not enough, herbs are an important ingredient in early cooking and herbal medicine of the peoples of the world. 8)Sauces. How about adding mechanics of sauces that are somewhat similar to pepper, but raising a certain fep in a dish by percentage, for example sour cream for constitution, or olive oil with vinegar to dexterity, or maple syrup, or other.... 9)The hearthlings who knows how to build windmills and make steel will be able to guess to the stationary smokehouses (barn with the mechanics of steelmaker on the bark / woodchips).This is for smoked fish, cheese and for buff sausages for example. 10)How about stewing / languishing dishes in the oven, and not just baking bread and pies. 11)Cooking soups in a pot over a fire - another cooking mechanic. 12)Well, in order of delirium - pickling/souring/marinating vegetables and not only (I'm sure jorbtar loves Surströmming - https://youtu.be/wmu7bHj81WI?t=1m11s) 13)Drinks. In addition to introducing apple or pear cider, juices, mead, as well as herbal infusions/tea, I would suggest transferring from tea replenishment of the satiation type Food to all drinks, but significantly reduce the buff from the throat, forcing us not to eat dry food, but to wash down the food Something at our discretion. Thank you for attention. Most of topic responses are positive and agree with the suggestion.
Granger: I think the food system is broken by the satiations (which completely don't make sense in the current incarnation) in combination with the drinks (which make satiations irrelevant as soon as you have them) and salt (that enables endless FEP intake after having scaled the drinks wall). Currently there are foods that you can stuff into your character without reducing the satiation bonus on that specific item, drinks effectively disable the satiation system completely and the amount of FEP that can be stuffed into a toon is just limited by how many salt nodes you can harvest on a regular basis. IMHO eating in H&H is currently broken and unfun. -> Satiations should work by reducing future benefit of the food item (and the type) you are currently eating while at the same time encouraging the player to pick a different dish (both different item and type), without tight loops (so you can't cycle half a dozend dishes and be done with that). -> Drinks could give a slight buff when eating but should neither be able to effectively disable the satiation system not be consequence free. -> Salt needs the feather function (roman orgy style, to vomit yourself empty so you can devour more) removed and instead be turned it into something similar to pepper (can be applied to or optionally crafted into certain dishes to reduce generated hunger a bit) with a mechanic to backfire in case one overdoses it.
ekzarh starts the topic saying that the current drinking system makes satiations useless and bring a suggestion.
ekzarh: Now anyone with access to tea+beer+wine+milk is unaffected by satiations. On well-established base these drinks can be produced in barrels without much effort. This makes weaks weaker and progress slower. And it makes strong stronger and progress faster. On the other hand, drinks must have meaning it's a nice mechanic and nice wiring the real-world activity to game activity. I invite another proposals which solve the issue without ruining the need to drink completely. And I know that big factions and power eaters will make 10 thouthands arguments in order to protect their super fast stat leveling.
My proposal is: 1. Change satiation to: "Once in in-game day the satiation with lowest percentage is reset" 2. Make a 1 unit of drink (sip feels to small so it may be 0.25l or 0.5l) to give Food variety bonus. 3. Make the same amount drink add 0,5-1% to Hunger (in order to avoid making drinks 'free' variety bonus) 4. Make additional, small, once per +stat 'proper drink combo' bonus for drinking proper drink immediately after eating a food. Like baked+tea, cheese/fish+wine, meat+beer, greens+milk.
Headchef: I don't think it really matters because people who don't have drinks properly covered yet should just work on it a bit to be equal. If they don't then they're ''behind'' compared to the groups who do, but just because of own laziness. I think it could be reworked, but this is not necessarily the method in my eyes.
ekzarh: Anything unachievable by players who cant spend 8h/day and more for playing can be justified as laziness. But the truth is - many people come here to play casually, for fun. And yes, they still want to be maybe not as strong as power-players but also not 10-100 times weaker. That's why I do agree that players who have drinks should have advantage above those who don't. But that advantage should not be unlimited.
Headchef: This advantage is not ''unlimited'' regardless of what else you're saying, because every person could with little effort provide sufficient drinks for themselves. If this on it's own is a challenge or something then you're already way further behind than you think, because this should be easy. Besides that I'd rather see a bigger rework instead of a tweak like this. * a lot of discussion about the main idea on the topic *
ekzarh:It's both. 1. With drinks satiation system becomes meaningless - as a result we can spam the same food 2. Without drinks satiation slows progress down. So we can either remove satiations or fix them. Personally, I like the satiation, I like the soft enforcing to eat different food and do different things in game. That's why I propose to fix it instead of removing.
Massa starts the topic just asking to remove the system at all. Many agree with him.
ekarh: Instead of talking shit about current system you'd better propose something which serves the same purpose but does it better. Current satiation system: 1) Incentivizes production of drinks. 2) Slows down initial stats progress before you can access all drinks. 3) As a result slows down quick power-leveling of alts (crafter/combat or whatever) 4) Induces making different things and eating varying food instead of just spamming 4 foods for 4 combat stats. Now we get 3k+ stat monsters after a few month of the world. Without satiation system we get about twice as fast. So you are basically asking to reduce already scarce game content, activities variety and casual/hardcore player balance. Let's just make it Haven idle quest then.(sarcasm) P.S. Regading alts problem... 15$/caharcter/month solves that way better than any other way.
ArgentRhapsody: I completely agree with you on both threads. Satiation is literally the stupidest system i've ever seen in any game ever. WHY DOESN'T ANY FOOD SATIATE ITSELF? WHY DOES IT SATIATE ARBITRARY GARBAGE COMPLETELY UNRELATED????
Thedrah: satiations should be simplified, mixing foods should be encouraged with calling it 'combos' or something. and drinks should use the 'sip' function and increase the next food item or few. such as a bonus that decreases over the next minute or next few items eaten. and have some negative for the drink so you can't just wing it rework drinks that you can get drunk like in old haven too
The topic has a lot of discussion about the hunger and that they incentives alts, i rather say to you read it on that topic because I may be biased if i didn't take all the discussion
Luanes wrote:I don't know how is the "state of art" of studying the hunger & satiations and the symbels, so I would like to discuss it more again. I don't remember on reading anything that it was like, for me at least, a good change.
It's probably easier to make good suggestions if you understand the current mechanics before bringing up changes to it. I'm not going to stop you from doing so, but it does leave a lot of room for wrong assumptions and estimates in your thoughts if you don't understand it completely.
To note, the hunger system is broken because of an OP symbel and feasting system (and don't forget about salt here, either), and the satiations are too easily gamed to actually slow progression with a large enough industry.
Will say I like the ideas for encouraging a balanced diet. I'm not sure how effective they'd be overall for slowing character progression (as that's the supposed purpose of the current satiation system) without seeing some data different from the current system. Any bonuses should be short lived or easily burned up, IMO.
Luanes wrote:Thanks for the links . I read most of then, I created on a new thread because i got a suggestion too.
We should probably merge it all. It's generally best if the conversation stays to one thread, if the subject is the same, so all the thoughts are collected together into one place. Makes it easier for the devs to find and know what the players think about systems. I know several of the threads have been exactly this in discussing the entirety of the attribute leveling system. Others have been specifically about changing one specific aspect or another. Add to that we're talking about three separate mechanics, even if they are subsets of one overall game design section, and it makes it hard to just push it all into one thread without losing track of the conversation. After all, the moderators job is to make it easier on the devs, not muddy up the conversation. Of course, that makes the job of "forum librarian" difficult.
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
Yeah, after ricky has sent me the links I got quite upset that I didn't read all and only just most of them. And, as you said, it's hard to put everything on one thread without losing the conversation. I really tried to bring most of ideas / critiques on this thread, but i'm pretty sure that I missed a lot of things because I can be probably biased. Anyway, I guess I could help a little by bringing some of the discussion a little more together, and don't mind if this thread happens to be merged soon or later. I really want to see some improvements on the satiation system because I have some friends that want to come back to play, but they want improvements on this system ( and the combat system)
i think that this is a well thought out idea. it could institute cravings as well. I dont realy understand the current system cause i just eat what i'm told... but i like this
Onep wrote:I'm pretty sure I've seen more of them dead than alive, but look at em! He says "roadkill" but he means cuddles.
jorb wrote:If we introduce neutering I'll fix it so that y'all can eat balls.
That is certainly something, but I am a bit weary about introducing that much state management to the character. It could get old very quickly to feel that you have to keep everything at 125% -- arguably it already does.
"The psychological trials of dwellers in the last times will be equal to the physical trials of the martyrs. In order to face these trials we must be living in a different world."
I didn't want to create another thread for the same subject so:
I was thinking about the problems around the symbel and hunger. We see that people decreases too much the hunger gain by the use of symbel, and, with the ravenous-famished bonus, the FEP gain gets too high. The concept behind this ( hunger & symbel & satiation) is quite fun for me, but it need some fixes because it's not preventing players to spam only 2 - 3 types of food to increase theirs stats. I don't want to hit here this subject ( increase the number of types of food to increase stats ), but I want to show more one idea to avoid the huge FEP gain by spam eating.
Suggestion: Your hunger level should AFFECT the hunger reduction by symbels.
I guess "active players" should be on the Hungry -Content-Full hunger level, so we "can" just make the Hungry the new Famished. When you're Hungry and Content, symbels HUNGER REDUCTION should work with 100% efficiency, while, when famished, this efficiency should be reduced to 50% and 75% for famished. So, even if you have really good symbels, your hunger bar should be filled more than it's today but, still, you can get the benefit from the hunger level FEP bonus and the symbel FEP bonus. I guess this change would give salt more value, since, if you can get enough salt, you will be able to keep longer on the famished-ravenous hunger level.
atm gameplay: get all drinks(1.25^n multiplier depends on food) //some satiations have no drink to raise pls fix get most FEP symbel (up to x3 multiplier) // easy metal spiral = better symbel get someone to feast (up to 99% hunger reduction ) // OP af
eat with x20 multiplier / x40 with pepper / x80 pepper+truffle quests/salt until 0 hunger feast again, repeat until bored
ctopolon4 wrote:get all drinks(1.25^n multiplier depends on food) //some satiations have no drink to raise pls fix
emphasis added
Jorb, I think, has some ideas on this, or at least had a couple of somewhat vague comments in the stream from a day or two ago about not being satisfied with the current status quo, satiations, symbel, etc.
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
by Luanes » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:54 pm 
. I still need to give "buffs and debuffs".
