Ardennesss wrote:Why bother even playing at world start if I can just pick up Haven at any time and compete with everyone else?
What would be the actual problem with this? And in case there actually exists one: would it dwarf the upsides of being able to join at whatever age of a world and be able to be meaningful?
What's the incentive for everyone else to actually stay active?
Same as with the current permagrind system: stay at the top. Only difference would be that taking a break wouldn't boil down to 'you lost, wait for a new world in case you want to get to the top'.
All of these proposed systems are great at closing the progression gap between latecomers and allowing for people to take vacations, but it's basically video game welfare. Is that a system that we think is actually going to be beneficial to player retention as a whole? Sure, Johnny sprucecap will be happy that when he plays haven for a month and quits that he was competing with the big boys during his month, but isn't that also just going to encourage all the big boys to quit because some nobody hop scotched into the game and caught up to their 6 months of work?
I think it would be worth it, as the amount of Johnny sprucecaps is way higher than the amount of big boys. Also I don't see big boys quitting as some nobody would need to be a whole group that does
their 6 months of work to be on par with them. I think even less big boys would be quitting as their amount of targets could replenish (by new groups emerging), which it currently dosn't because it can't (regardless if it being physically impossible or just because people are too discourated to try).
Hrenli wrote:Granger wrote:This is in case you evenly distribute all LP over all 13 attributes, a more specialized one will and at a higher number.
Also the picture implies fixed and the same LP/hour gain for all. Which is very questionable assumption to say the least...
Sure it is, it's just to illustrate that you can't reach an older character that has the same LP/h than you under the current system, while you could with the suggestion.
Effective level a character stabilizes at would be a function of the LP gains in the more recent past of the character, not just the total sum over the total as we currently have (which gives the problems like death being seen as a reason to quit till a new world or characters that at some point are able to PvE kill everything without real effort or risk).
For me personally having a fixed amount of hourly LP maintenance (call this effort whatever, but it is required maintenance) just to be able to progress doesn't feel healthy. Yes, it is low you might say. But it is still enforced on you. You would be required to always study, always keep up.
Please try to wrap your head around the fact that the same happens currently, with the difference that you don't see it in your character sheet but the penalty being permanent as you can't recover from it. With stat decay it would be the opposite: you would see it, but it wouldn't be permanent.
Also, in case of it also being applied to FEP (note: making the whole eating more lenient so you can stuff way more that currently possible would be a required part of that package) would make even fuckups like Kebab a non-issue, as the overpowered stuff could be correctly nerf'd and the ones that exploited them would decay to a sane level. Which would be a first for Haven: being able to scale down effects of mechanics without permanently gimping hamstringing everyone who didn't exploit it to a maximum.
If anything, any system limiting character active life span sounds better to me. Doesn't matter how often or seldom you login, you have (maybe variable to an extend) certain amount of time to enjoy. And then start (almost) over. Character spiraling etc.
Feel free to come up with something along that, as long as it's able to solve the issues with endless growth of numbers, among these also that the world getting irrelevant as characters get too powerful for PvE to still have a meaning, all of which character spiraling certainly won't be able to solve but more likly cause.
terechgracz wrote:Granger wrote:A simple max function can't be bargained with
What do you mean? I don't understand that.
A simple max function means that you can't get higher than x whatever your do - implementing a ceiling with stat decay allows that you to get as good as what you currently (averaged over the last $timespan, length depending on the numbers used to implement it) keep doing: you can grind less but get a bit weaker, increase the grind to get a bit stronger, take a break when you want to and have the option to come back later up to your former glory (relative to the others) or get even better than before your holiday.
All not possible with a simple max function that everyone will reach at some point, with the ones being there first complaining to the devs that the game sucks as they're out of things to do (like it happened with the flawed fixed cap implementation they once tested for a very short while, especially as they didn't adjust the rest of the game).