Nerf Einherjer Aspect

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Nerf Einherjer Aspect

Postby Pan_w_okularach » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:31 pm

jorb wrote:"A Prayer for Strength"/"Einherjer Aspect": At a cost of 40 Numen points your character will, for one full ingame day (~8RL hours) receive 50% of his Ancestral value in Strength, Agility, Perception, Marksmanship, Melee Combat and Unarmed Combat, as a personal buff to those same values. The Ancestral value is calculated as 100% of the nearest ancestor's value, plus 50% of the second nearest ancestor's value, plus 25% of the third nearest ancestor's value.

Where to even begin with this one... OK, let me put it this way: why? This is so ridiculous. I get that the intent was to give player some sort of silver lining to the unpleasant experience that death is supposed(?) to be, but 50 percent? Simple math will tell you, that right after death with this prayer you're actually surpassing your deceased ancestor's stats by a certain percentage, and not only that, you will also have much easier time raising stats of the heir because its base values would be lower. Yes, it's actually beneficial to die, yeah that thing everyone is so afraid of, we must have that dumbass port to hf after KO mechanic. The only downside is that you need to get 40 numen points every time you use it, but that's manageable. Well, for the top 1% it is. The big factions, the power players, the nolifers. Everyone else - try to get 10 numen points right now, I'll wait. I imagine it'll be too much hassle for a casual player to get 40 numens ever let alone always have it in store for the upcoming fight(with a boar?). So it's not for everyone. And what even was the argument for this prayer in the first place? I can only recall Lady Goo was in favor of it because she believed dying and losing stats was too tough. That coming from a player who would typically have to die 2 times in a row for her stats to go down to the same level as someone like me. These players don't want to lose stats becuase they're nothing without them. A good pvper can have an inpact on the battlefiled even with a fraction of everybody else's stats, losing one third of the values is not even an issue it's basically the same character. Like if you had a char above average before death you will be a little below average after, with 45% of former total lp and feps. It's not the end of a pvp career, unless you're that douche who only was ever relevant because of the abnormally strong character you happend to own. Why does PvP in this game has to be tailored for this particular botter(no lifer - same thing) play style? IDK.

- uhh yeah... but umm... didn't Legacy have einher too? so what's the problem? I'm dumb.

No, it's not the same. Here's how:
While suiciding for einher was certainly a thing some people did do(and that was dumb), there was also a major downside

to death - having to go inactive for a long while to recover from it, because of the belief system which didn't transfer to Hafen. For those who

are unfamiliar, you had to choose one: either you were peaceful/change or martial/tradition. Changing these beliefs was a long process taking

about 1 real life week iirc. Peaceful/change allowed to gain a lot of lp from curios, but you were to lose almost all of your stats if you die

and it also reduced the damage your character could deal to the extent your attacks wouldn't even bypass average PvP grade armor. The opposite

beliefs - tradtition/martial allowed to inherit most of your stat values in case you die(basically what we have right now in Hafen) and deal a

lot of damage in combat, but also made you recieve almost 0 lp from curios. So basically if you died in Legacy you went inactive for 1 month to

get lp and then go back to trad and be ready to fight, or you could go straight to trad and cripple your chracter's bloodline. 1 month is a pretty heavy penalty for death don't you think?

Anyways, to give a short summary, here's the ways in which Einherjer affects the game negativelly:
1. It's not for casual players.
2. It takes meaning out of death, making it a little worse than a KO.
3. It ensures that the players who can't/don't want to grind stats all day will never catch up with the titans.
3.5. It makes combat meaningless: a battle in which you kill half of your enemy's core players is not gonna change the balance between the factions. The only way is to outgrind them, or outrecruit them.
4. It adds another stupid chore every competetive pvper has to do in order to stay competetive. Spending 1 hour every couple of days - fun.


So how do we fix it?
Well obviously the devs aren't just gonna remove it from the game completely, even though that'd actually be the right thing to do. So I have a few suggestions:
0. Make it visible that your opponent is using einher. Fire out of eyes or something.
1. Nerf it. How about 25%? That's more reasonable.
2. Don't want to nerf it? Make it last less. By a lot. How about 5 minutes? So it'd be a tactical boost your opponents would have to tough through rather than a permanent buff.
3. Another option: make it only work on the territory of your village and when it's besieged. Would help people protecting their bases.
Last edited by Pan_w_okularach on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby dafels » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:16 pm

+1
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby sinko » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:20 pm

if Koreshock died.....he would have 20k str........ and I dont think Im ready to fight this
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby overtyped » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:25 pm

I thought it was much much harder to die with the new system?
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby sinko » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:29 pm

overtyped wrote:I thought it was much much harder to die with the new system?

nope, its actually pretty easy with the way combat is
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby DDDsDD999 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:50 pm

It definitely needs to get nerfed or be more situational. Killing someone doesn't really make them weaker since they basically get the same stats when they einher upon inheriting. The numen gathering is annoying, but doesn't really matter for the people they're fighting against.

Einher was even more retarded in legacy though.
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby shubla » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:51 pm

I agree that whole numen thing is kind of dumb.
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby synaris » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:16 pm

i enjoy the whole numen system. but you have a point about only high end factions being able to easily take advantage of this.

not sure what change is necessary but i dont want to see things like this removed, i want to see it expanded upon.
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby Pan_w_okularach » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:13 am

I think the consensus is clear
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Re: Einherjer buff is silly

Postby Granger » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:12 am

Pan_w_okularach wrote:I think the consensus is clear

That there isn't one, as usual?
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