Combat System Brainstorm

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Combat System Brainstorm

Postby Pan_w_okularach » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:57 pm

jorb wrote:
Pan_w_okularach wrote:You just can't come up with a sophisticated combat system based on such a boring premise.


Feel free to present better premises.

Let's go.

Directional Attacks & Blocks

Let's take already existing archery mechanic as the basis for directional attacks. How would it work? Basically you press on an ability, click in the desired direction which would make your character aim in that direction. When aiming bar is complete the attack is fully ready(max weight and damage). The relation shouldn't be linear: the attack should only be effective when the bar is at 70-80% or higher, so no cheap shots. Taking a swing shouldn't interrupt or slow character's movements down(ctrl+ left click to move around), maybe unless it's a very powerful attack. Naturally rhe range should be much shorter than with bows - I suggest 3-3.5 tiles for melee attacks(with a sword, axe etc) and 2 tiles for umarmed attacks. Setting even shorter range would probably make it too hard to hit anyone running or sprinting. Aiming speed should depend on the particular attack that is being used, for example: sting base aiming time is 2 sec, while cleave is 4 sec, perhaps it should also be modified by character's agi, but not too much. Generally unarmed attacks should take less time to charge but make less damage(or almost no damage) while melee attacks should take long to prepare but in return be deadly. It would also be great if attacks couldn't penetrate objects with hitboxes in the same way bow shots can't. Now unlike how archery currently works I suggest the direction of attack wouldn't allowed to be changed or adjusted in the middle of aiming. You can interrupt the attack and swing it in another direction but not change it saving the aim meter. That way the opponent would always be certain where the attack is going to go and have a chance to dodge it. That would also make autoaiming pointless, because you would need to be aiming where your target is going to be when your attack is ready rather than where it currently is, which you can only try to predict but can't know for sure.

Special attack effects. I think it'd be interesting if some attacks had pushing effect. Like a kick would push your opponent a few tiles away from you? Another thing that would be interesting to see is attacks that would make character charge into the direction of the attack, I'm not talking 100 tiles, maybe 5-10 tiles - nothing that game breaking. Character might require to stay still to prepare such attack.

Directional blocks. To counter attacks you could use directional blocks, that would work in a simular way as directional attacks. You activate the ability and point in the desired direction but unlike attacks blocks would be circular sectors rather than lines, protecting you from a whole range of angles from which attacks might come from. For example shiled up would cover a 120 degrees angle while parry or some anarmed block would be much smaller maybe 30 degrees. There should also be a block bar by analogy with aim bar. Unlike attacks blocks should be allowed to change direction at any time(maybe at the cost of losing some block bar). But unlike attacks blocks should probably slow character down, so you can't flee and hold a block.

What happens when an attack hits a block? Depending on the block, you lose some amount of defence(or opening is raised, if you wish but openings are a shitty mechanic I prefer defence bar). Some blocks would have good weight multiplier but maybe take long to activate, some may have small weight but quick to set. Every hit sets the block bar back, and if it goes to 0 the block disappears. Getting hit without a block(or from an angle the block doesn't cover) counts as a very shitty block, for example, with a weight of 0.25 or maybe less. If your defence goes to 0 you start recieving damage. Having an attack ready should aslo count as some kind of weak block.

UI.
line showing the dirction and range of the attack I'm about to perform:
Image
half circle on the ground representing my shield up block:
Image

Moves, ruses and other combat abilities. Other than blocks and attacks there should be other combat moves to manipulate various parameters like IP's or defence(opening) and whatnot. For some abilities you would require to be within a certain distance of your opponent, for some not. Pretty standard stuff. Some moves, particulary those to restore defence, might require to stay still for a moment or two.

So thats my concept of a non-target combat system. Can try to develop it further if the devs show interest, meanwhile feel free to comment and suggest your own ideas. Don't be lazy cause we are going to get stuck with that turd of a combat system for another year if we don't come up with something.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby dafels » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:01 pm

Pan_w_okularach wrote: Don't be lazy cause we are going to get stuck with that turd of a combat system for another year if we don't come up with something.

this
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby blank » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:08 pm

some good ideas right here. +1
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby sinko » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:17 pm

this is actually really cool +1

also what about this combat that you started making?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQUkJ9oQU1Q
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby Aceb » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:28 pm

If I understand, when You aim for a "slash", your enemy can see it and it is not instant. It must be almost instant or every attack will probably miss, because people would just know where to dodge... and can't surprise the enemy, because they always know where You aim.

It's def. very cool idea (but I really insist on attack not having a range wider than 1,5tile (unless it's a charge or something) and it might be a base to make something greater.

Shield should load in similar manner and if You manage to get 100% on that bar, attack only fully damages shield, nothing goes on character.


+ I always liked how UA is just another way than MC. I would wish it to stay that way, only making UA dealing less than MC, but still be effective in combat.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby D0fuz15 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:53 pm

+1 to the idea, thats a heavy change to the actual combat and i like it.I would say a short range for most of the attacks and fast charge bar to not be predictable.
Good idea!
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby Jake024d » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Maybe when you are fighting the mouse isn't involved. Maybe the controls switch to all keyboard. Arrows are directional, and attacks and blocks and activated by hotkeys. They way you are pointing decides which way your attacks go, some are the same direction like attacks and blocks, while other are the opposite direction like dodges and other maneuvers.

Aceb wrote:
If I understand, when You aim for a "slash", your enemy can see it and it is not instant. It must be almost instant or every attack will probably miss, because people would just know where to dodge... and can't surprise the enemy, because they always know where You aim.


I agree to an extent. When you choose to swing, it should be almost instant but I think there should still be a chance for the other person. Maybe something based on their perception, higher perc means greater chance of getting the chance to "quick dodge". This "quick dodge" should pop up briefly and is activated by the space bar. If activated correctly, causes the attack to fail.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby sinko » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:59 pm

Jake024d wrote:Maybe when you are fighting the mouse isn't involved. Maybe the controls switch to all keyboard. Arrows are directional, and attacks and blocks and activated by hotkeys. They way you are pointing decides which way your attacks go, some are the same direction like attacks and blocks, while other are the opposite direction like dodges and other maneuvers.

Aceb wrote:
If I understand, when You aim for a "slash", your enemy can see it and it is not instant. It must be almost instant or every attack will probably miss, because people would just know where to dodge... and can't surprise the enemy, because they always know where You aim.


I agree to an extent. When you choose to swing, it should be almost instant but I think there should still be a chance for the other person. Maybe something based on their perception, higher perc means greater chance of getting the chance to "quick dodge". This "quick dodge" should pop up briefly and is activated by the space bar. If activated correctly, causes the attack to fail.

so now people will have 10k perc aswell :)
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby Thedrah » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:39 am

i think this game model is better with target abilities over directional attacks unless the directional attacks have a large enough area of effect or fast enough that people can't twitch dodge stuff

would be good to have a semi targetable system in place for people that don't have good mouse controls or lag issues. so that the attacks are in the targets general direction

i do miss the 4 color defenses, they allowed for trickier combat albeit slower combat
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby pheonix » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:47 am

see this is the system i have been envisioning for hafen for a long time to make it great. By having a directional system like this it makes group pvp combat viable it makes a newbie learning to fight animals make sense and opening up the game to alot more people because its a simple system but hard to master. i can see you can add different weapons like spears for long thrust or 2 swords for dual wielding attacks and we can have players fight with the style they like and feels right instead of what the meta of the month is.

+1 to this idea because imo this would make combat fun to the point id rather go out fighting animals alot more then the current system where its a boring tedious fight to the death. I also have tried current system pvp 1v1 at same stats and it was 10 minutes of my life i lost staring at 2 characters punching each other.
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