Combat System Brainstorm

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby azrid » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:21 am

This is somewhat what I imagined the new combat to be like anyway with less wind up for moves but rather them having cooldowns after use.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby overtyped » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:37 am

Pan_w_okularach wrote:
jorb wrote:
Pan_w_okularach wrote:You just can't come up with a sophisticated combat system based on such a boring premise.


Feel free to present better premises.

Let's go.

Directional Attacks & Blocks

Let's take already existing archery mechanic as the basis for directional attacks. How would it work? Basically you press on an ability, click in the desired direction which would make your character aim in that direction. When aiming bar is complete the attack is fully ready(max weight and damage). The relation shouldn't be linear: the attack should only be effective when the bar is at 70-80% or higher, so no cheap shots. Taking a swing shouldn't interrupt or slow character's movements down(ctrl+ left click to move around), maybe unless it's a very powerful attack. Naturally rhe range should be much shorter than with bows - I suggest 3-3.5 tiles for melee attacks(with a sword, axe etc) and 2 tiles for umarmed attacks. Setting even shorter range would probably make it too hard to hit anyone running or sprinting. Aiming speed should depend on the particular attack that is being used, for example: sting base aiming time is 2 sec, while cleave is 4 sec, perhaps it should also be modified by character's agi, but not too much. Generally unarmed attacks should take less time to charge but make less damage(or almost no damage) while melee attacks should take long to prepare but in return be deadly. It would also be great if attacks couldn't penetrate objects with hitboxes in the same way bow shots can't. Now unlike how archery currently works I suggest the direction of attack wouldn't allowed to be changed or adjusted in the middle of aiming. You can interrupt the attack and swing it in another direction but not change it saving the aim meter. That way the opponent would always be certain where the attack is going to go and have a chance to dodge it. That would also make autoaiming pointless, because you would need to be aiming where your target is going to be when your attack is ready rather than where it currently is, which you can only try to predict but can't know for sure.

Special attack effects. I think it'd be interesting if some attacks had pushing effect. Like a kick would push your opponent a few tiles away from you? Another thing that would be interesting to see is attacks that would make character charge into the direction of the attack, I'm not talking 100 tiles, maybe 5-10 tiles - nothing that game breaking. Character might require to stay still to prepare such attack.

Directional blocks. To counter attacks you could use directional blocks, that would work in a simular way as directional attacks. You activate the ability and point in the desired direction but unlike attacks blocks would be circular sectors rather than lines, protecting you from a whole range of angles from which attacks might come from. For example shiled up would cover a 120 degrees angle while parry or some anarmed block would be much smaller maybe 30 degrees. There should also be a block bar by analogy with aim bar. Unlike attacks blocks should be allowed to change direction at any time(maybe at the cost of losing some block bar). But unlike attacks blocks should probably slow character down, so you can't flee and hold a block.

What happens when an attack hits a block? Depending on the block, you lose some amount of defence(or opening is raised, if you wish but openings are a shitty mechanic I prefer defence bar). Some blocks would have good weight multiplier but maybe take long to activate, some may have small weight but quick to set. Every hit sets the block bar back, and if it goes to 0 the block disappears. Getting hit without a block(or from an angle the block doesn't cover) counts as a very shitty block, for example, with a weight of 0.25 or maybe less. If your defence goes to 0 you start recieving damage. Having an attack ready should aslo count as some kind of weak block.

UI.
line showing the dirction and range of the attack I'm about to perform:
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half circle on the ground representing my shield up block:
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Moves, ruses and other combat abilities. Other than blocks and attacks there should be other combat moves to manipulate various parameters like IP's or defence(opening) and whatnot. For some abilities you would require to be within a certain distance of your opponent, for some not. Pretty standard stuff. Some moves, particulary those to restore defence, might require to stay still for a moment or two.

So thats my concept of a non-target combat system. Can try to develop it further if the devs show interest, meanwhile feel free to comment and suggest your own ideas. Don't be lazy cause we are going to get stuck with that turd of a combat system for another year if we don't come up with something.

we dont want non target, we already have a salem.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby ArgentRhapsody » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:02 am

so, essentially, salem combat.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby overtyped » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:09 am

ArgentRhapsody wrote:so, essentially, salem combat.

ye, there is absolutely nothing wrong with targeting combat, changing it wouldn't be haven
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby DDDsDD999 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:52 am

overtyped wrote:
ArgentRhapsody wrote:so, essentially, salem combat.

ye, there is absolutely nothing wrong with targeting combat, changing it wouldn't be haven

Yeah, no, targeting is cancer, half of group combat is getting everyone to target someone at the same time. If custom clients make some way to quickly synchronize targetting, people would get deleted in group fights.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby pheonix » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:28 am

overtyped wrote:
ArgentRhapsody wrote:so, essentially, salem combat.

ye, there is absolutely nothing wrong with targeting combat, changing it wouldn't be haven

you obviously haven't played hafen much since your tantrum, because any sane person wouldn't say that.

When fighting slimes atm the system targets the first one that attacks me, if i hit it until it runs away I'm still surrounded and have to click disengage and spam attacks until it registers i'm fighting another slime all the while im being beat on by multiple slimes still. directional fighting allows me to fight whatever is near me faster and remove that 2-5 second delay of me clicking the peace icon and spamming new attacks to queue. this applies to fighting all creatures atm because i cant believe people enjoy when hunting having to wander the forest and click aggro a few times each deer or beaver or fox they fight because either trees in the way or the hitbox is too small.
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby Pan_w_okularach » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:39 am

I heard Salem combat was good
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby dafels » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:03 am



I really enjoyed this one and I saw way bigger potential in this one, I don't get why devs decided to change for way worse combat sys...
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby yakitori » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:32 am

your idea is "Arcadia Saga" japan MMORPG

W,A,S,D move system
Space Key Attack
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 is skill

class is Warrior/Wizard/Tamer/Bird
There was a circular range etc. for magic

weapon range
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punch
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weapon skill
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Arcadia Saga There was also a "shield"

use shield skill block front Damage
Backstab is Damage x 2 , side x 1.5(forget)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjMs3PSSlzw

Darkfall Unholy Wars is Shield "V key" if Shield Equipped "shield up" , Weapon Equipped "Parry"
Stamina decreases even during shield up or Parry
Stamina will be reduced if you receive damage

I am also like your idea
I am thinking about "Non-Target Shooting(Archery/Magic)"+"key hold Charge Atttack" further
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Re: Combat System Brainstorm

Postby iamahh » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:42 am

Ctrl+F "bot" .... 0 results

more like "dreamstorm"

to do those things you'd probably need another client with some authentication to avoid mods and cheats... but game population would take a hit, at least initially...
Last edited by iamahh on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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