Fresh eyes on terraforming?

[CaddoPuma]

Ok, I understand why terraforming is currently restricted within a certain distance from water. But I would like to brainstorm a bit and see if maybe there are better solutions to vaulting either already implemented or implementable.

Let me preface my presentation with an acknowledgement that I am, in fact, a newb. And so, there is A LOT about the game I dont understand, ESPECIALLY related to PVP, sieges, and game mechanics. So if anything I say is totally "well duh" or "common sense should tell you that can't be done": Let's remember I haven't been here long enough to earn the common experience required to gain "common sense".

So. Now we have catapults as siege weapons which can be set on one shore and smash down those pesky shore vaults and I'm assuming most Island vaults. But I can imagine there MIGHT be SOMEWHERE in the world an Island too far from the nearest shore for even a catapult to reach. Which leads to a few "what if..." scenarios:

1. What if catapults could be erected on and fired from a raft?
2. What if there was a new, special watercraft specifically designed for this purpose?
   
   1. A siege raft: Requires more materials to build and longer to erect and can only be used as a platform for erecting a catapult, not for transporting it. That way the siege party will need at least 2 crafts, the transport and the platform.
   2. A siege knarr. requires the same amount of mats as a regular knarr but sacrifices cargo AND crew capacity in exchange for the ability to have a catapult built and operated on its deck
   3. Or "Swamp pads" These are currently used IRL to support heavy construction equipment for work in areas with unstable ground. In game it could require a large number ( no less than 8, no more than 16) of blocks (not logs, so you have to put in more effort to create them) for each 2x2 pad. And it would take multiple pads (say 1 under each leg of a wrecking ball or 6 side by side under a catapult or battering ram) to support 1 siege weapon. And they can ONLY be erected in places where at least 2 of them is on a tile that can be dug for ball clay.

If some of this were possible-or other ideas springing from these - perhaps we could lift the restriction on terraforming to the water's edge?

OR is it all too much work for too little gain?

[wonder-ass]

a war knarr with ballista turret would be cool.

[Mario_Demorez]

The problem with adding a catapult to a moving vehicle is that repairing it would be either to expensive or broken in some way. Part of the raiding parties job is to find areas for catapults or rams and defend them with a highly mobile siege weapon this would would change the game drastically. You would have to make the siege vehicle very vulnerable or a time for set up to fire? Higher repair cost and higher decay rate per fire.

[Granger]

Let's try to come from a different angle: what is your problem with the rule that two tiles from water can't be terraformed?

[Mario_Demorez]

Let's try to come from a different angle: what is your problem with the rule that two tiles from water can't be terraformed?

It's a limit on building, and makes it where people that have a preference to how the area around them looks have a problem

[CaddoPuma]

The problem with adding a catapult to a moving vehicle is that repairing it would be either to expensive or broken in some way. Part of the raiding parties job is to find areas for catapults or rams and defend them with a highly mobile siege weapon this would would change the game drastically. You would have to make the siege vehicle very vulnerable or a time for set up to fire? Higher repair cost and higher decay rate per fire.

If I understand your points correctly, I think the answers are thus:

1. The inability/difficulty/cost to repair would create a requirement to rebuild from scratch which would limit the OPness potential. Wouldn't it?
2. The platform would only be mobile when the weapon is not erected. If the weapon is erected, the platform on which it sets must be rock solid to allow proper operation of the weapon. And thus, the platform would be rendered completely immobile until the weapon is either destroyed or dismantled. And just like claims are targeted in a siege before the actual structures, the weapons on a siege platform could take all damage until it is destoryed or x% destroyed before the platform takes any. The % solution would mean the raiding party not only has to defend the weapon, but the platform as well.
3. Changing the game drastically isn't a bad thing if the change is positive change.
4. Regardless of which platform is used, all of them (Barge, Siege Knarr, and Swamp Pads) require the weapon be erected separately, therefore current set up times, repair costs, firing decay rate, etc could/would still apply or could even be increased by x% because of it's use on a fabricated platform.

[Mario_Demorez]

The problem with adding a catapult to a moving vehicle is that repairing it would be either to expensive or broken in some way. Part of the raiding parties job is to find areas for catapults or rams and defend them with a highly mobile siege weapon this would would change the game drastically. You would have to make the siege vehicle very vulnerable or a time for set up to fire? Higher repair cost and higher decay rate per fire.

If I understand your points correctly, I think the answers are thus:

1. The inability/difficulty/cost to repair would create a requirement to rebuild from scratch which would limit the OPness potential. Wouldn't it?
2. The platform would only be mobile when the weapon is not erected. If the weapon is erected, the platform on which it sets must be rock solid to allow proper operation of the weapon. And thus, the platform would be rendered completely immobile until the weapon is either destroyed or dismantled. And just like claims are targeted in a siege before the actual structures, the weapons on a siege platform could take all damage until it is destoryed or x% destroyed before the platform takes any. The % solution would mean the raiding party not only has to defend the weapon, but the platform as well.
3. Changing the game drastically isn't a bad thing if the change is positive change.
4. Regardless of which platform is used, all of them (Barge, Siege Knarr, and Swamp Pads) require the weapon be erected separately, therefore current set up times, repair costs, firing decay rate, etc could/would still apply or could even be increased by x% because of it's use on a fabricated platform.

This is exactly what I meant, other than changing the game part. This addition will make other things broken like maybe make rams and catapults obsolete. Atm I believe rams are already pointless to build.

[CaddoPuma]

Let's try to come from a different angle: what is your problem with the rule that two tiles from water can't be terraformed?

It's a limit on building, and makes it where people that have a preference to how the area around them looks have a problem

While this is true, and based in part on Mario's knowledge that how things look are very important to me, there is another issue at play. I have an alt trying to establish himself somewhere in a cave that is too near the water so that he is unable to erect a PaliGate over the entrance, nor can he flatten the ground for a pali in an area surrounding the cave because of it's closeness to water. Yes, some could say all this effort for the benefit of 1 guy's ALT simply isnt worth changing the whole game, And I would agree if it was just 1 guy's alt. But I can't imagine that I am the only person who has or will face this specific problem which can only be fixed by allowing terraforming up to the water's edge. But I dont want to break the mechanics designed to prevent vaulting in the process. So I am trying to think of ways to remove some terraforming restrictions but keep vaulting broken. Terrforming still wouldnt be possible in shallows, only up to the edge of shallows.

... This addition will make other things broken like maybe make rams and catapults obsolete. Atm I believe rams are already pointless to build.

I dont believe so because such weapons would still be necessary to seige landlocked claims or to assault a claim from multiple fronts, some of said fronts being solid land.

[shubla]

[*]What if catapults could be erected on and fired from a raft?

They wouldnt be that accurate then.

[CaddoPuma]

[*]What if catapults could be erected on and fired from a raft?

They wouldnt be that accurate then.

IRL this is true. IF game mechanics are made to reflect RL, then that would serve along with erection times and platform immobilization mentioned in my replies above to minimize the potential for OP-ness