Critique from a new (PvE) archer: cut the cheese

[✧]

wrt animal hunting, it's too easy to just shoot things from a boat. It feels a little absurd just sitting there while the animal watches me take my sweet 15 marksmanship time trying to line up a decent shot over and over until it gets hit. This can't be a remotely realistic simulation of how animals actually behave, can it? I've heard of endurance hunting but I haven't heard of boat hunting like hearthlings have been seen to do.

1. allow all animals to swim, almost all are naturally good at it, right? (Possibly allow them to capsize rowboats?)

2. cliffs and animal ai: if the animal can't reach the target it shouldn't just stand there waiting to be shot at once aggroed. If it can't move or get closer it should start some alternative pathfinding attempt or give up or something. Anything other than just standing there. (maybe initiate the "flee" behavior if it can't reach its target and the pathfinding algorithm doesn't result in its moving at all within some time frame? Especially after the animal takes damage and is still unable to reach its target)

3. Aiming a bow at an animal should be considered a hostile act, for which animals will attack or flee as appropriate. Surely they can figure out they're likely being hunted without having to actually take an arrow. If that's not how the game works (is it only possible to aim at a particular object, only in a particular direction?) maybe aiming anywhere in some proximity of any wild animal triggers some kind of alert. Possibly checked against stealth. (i.e. you can aim from closer without startling your prey with higher stealth)

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4. related, it would be great if stealth affected animal interactions. I want to be a light-footed forest hunter. I want to lie quietly in wait for my prey to come by. Maybe I even want scent-concealing gildings or single-use buff items (use for soap?). I want to experience the frustration of having my prey flee when it hears or sees me draw my bow, and the satisfaction once I learn to do it stealthily enough. Animals in general should also be harder to encounter; most know to avoid humans and are good at it, especially the strongest and best of their kind (I read a study about this once but a quick search doesn't seem to find it. It was something about how higher social status among coyotes may correlate with less likelihood to interact with or be detected by local humans).

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I'm not trying to suggest over-complicating things or something, it just feels like it's very easy to "cheat" using archery. I *know* animals run away once they get hurt badly enough, but that first shot counts for a lot and they just... sit there... if you find them along the river and aggro them. It's far too easy, and it doesn't feel satisfying. I'd rather not be able to hunt that way than just choosing not to do so because it feels cheesy. These are my impressions being fairly new to trying to hunt creatures with a bow.

[Aceb]

I don't think that animals should run from bow before being hit/barely missed with an arrow. I never heard of animal that on the sight of gun, starts to run. Only when human gets too close or is too clumsy and produce warning sounds.

[Bowshot125]

Boat is early game method of hunting usually, most people start hunting from horseback once they start breeding horses.

[✧]

I don't think that animals should run from bow before being hit/barely missed with an arrow. I never heard of animal that on the sight of gun, starts to run. Only when human gets too close or is too clumsy and produce warning sounds.

Isn't it hard to sneak up on them though? I see these things advertised that are supposed to help hide your scent so deer don't smell you and avoid the area, and camo gear so the prey don't see you, or tree house things you can hide in so they don't see you when you lie in wait for them. Or traps for animals that you won't see otherwise other than seeing their tracks in an area. That all seems pretty different from the experience in HnH as of now, where apex predators and prey animals (except for maybe rabbits and squirrels) will just mosey on by like they don't notice you and don't know what it looks like when something wants to eat them.

Do deer really just stand still if they see you aiming at them? They may not know what a gun is for exactly but can they not sense something about your predatory intent?

[MagicManICT]

I don't think that animals should run from bow before being hit/barely missed with an arrow. I never heard of animal that on the sight of gun, starts to run. Only when human gets too close or is too clumsy and produce warning sounds.

^^ Obviously doesn't hunt. Animals are skittish around humans. All it takes is the scent or glimpse of something to scare of almost anything.

Do deer really just stand still if they see you aiming at them? They may not know what a gun is for exactly but can they not sense something about your predatory intent?

Pretty much. Good camo, slow, even motions, and make sure you're downwind so you can't be scented by the target. If animals can sense intent of a predator, it's from motions and sounds made while stalking, and any pheromones given off from anticipation of the hunt.

it would be great if stealth affected animal interactions.

Overall, this whole thread has been the common consensus of everyone from what I recall reading, but this has been a big one among those that want a better hunting experience.

As far as #2, they do, but they have a limited sight range for pathing around cliffs and water. My understanding is that there isn't much that can be done for technical reasons.

[Aceb]

^^ Obviously doesn't hunt. Animals are skittish around humans. All it takes is the scent or glimpse of something to scare of almost anything.

Yes I do not. However it is just my observation of animals I had a chance to encounter. Usually if I got spotted by a deer, it started to run but it wasn't a very big distance usually, so I imagin a hunter experienced with bow / gun, should have be safe from being heard / seen by a an animal in even bigger distance that I was able casually to walk by. Maybe because there's no much wild space for wild animals and those got somewhat used to roads / humans around. Dunno.

Also, I can understand that animals sees You and starts to run or not. But I doubt it can tell if You're trying to hit it with an arrow (at least the first one).

[✧]

Ok, it sounds like animals may not particularly care about bows/guns, but they might care about fast twitchy predatory-seeming suspicious motions. Do they care about bows more than guns? They've had a lot longer to adapt to avoiding being killed by bows than guns.

As far as #2, they do, but they have a limited sight range for pathing around cliffs and water. My understanding is that there isn't much that can be done for technical reasons.

Maybe just do a check for whether or not they've succeeded in moving or something easier? From the outside it seems like it could be improved without having to improve the pathing algorithm, just something to disrupt the "aggressively posture waiting to be shot indefinitely" behavior. Unless this actually is realistic for aggressive territorial animals at cliffs and other areas they can't cross?

[Akme]

"it just feels like it's very easy to "cheat" using archery" - U known, hunting is very easy by itself in this game now, even without such petty abuses like cliffs or boats, so they not make big difference.
"I want to be a light-footed forest hunter" - When u got appropriate stats/skills/equipment and horse (they are not so high/dificult to get) - u will stop even think about such troublesome actions - u will just mount ur horse and go and punch animals in snout/slash with ur weapon without care about anything (they cannot run away from mounted player in most cases after all) and throw corpses in ur wagon/cart/left them on ground and move on - just simple grind. Some late game/pack behaviour prey may force u use some tactics ofc - but not very much.
Most of things (+1 to change animal response behaviour on receive hit from unreachable target btw) that u propose about animal reaction on moment when they see bow holding user will just make bow even more useless than now (i mean much less efficient for hunting in terms of time consuming/productivity) - and peoples just abandon its using completely in the end.
Imho hunting may become much more interesting/fun (and mb hunters even will start depends on bows more) if stats of prey will be determined by its q in same way as q is affects bonus from equipment.

[✧]

U known, hunting is very easy by itself in this game now, even without such petty abuses like cliffs or boats, so they not make big difference.

They're still making a big difference for me in what I think would be called early-game. I'm scared to take on most wildlife. I get nearly killed when I try.

I was thinking about how hunting seems easy, too. Maybe it should be harder in general? It seems a little weird that a hearthling can get strong enough to trivially take on even very dangerous, big, strong animals like it's nothing. Is that possible irl in close quarters fighting?

[sMartins]

Yeah totally agree on improving hunting and PVE in general, that is a huge part of this game, already suggested plenty of times from many people and me too ... but I guess AI and pathfinding are the main problems in this regard.
What I suggest to start with is:

1) get rid off the "attack order", that allow us to do whatever we want with animals right now ... pretty much they are mobs not animals.
2) improve archery and throwing weapons mechanics and implement that as main hunting practice ... keeping UA and MC as self defense only.

Later on a scent/ wind direction/ stealth mechanics could be very cool in this game.

P.S. As reference just watch at UrealWorld hunting system, that I think is the best one ever implemented in a game.