Punishment for bashing containers/buildings.

[Salad]

So i got to thinking about locks and their current function in the game being applied to containers. Anyone could just simply bash the container instead of picking whatever lock you've placed onto your lovely loot chest and your precious goods will be forfeit. I have a suggestion, that bashing chests should destroy a few of the items inside the chest to influence players to not go bashing chests willy nilly during a raid. As for houses, I'm not sure how you would accomplish this but perhaps something similar in terms of destroying random containers, and then destroying random items within those destroyed containers. A few things have been pointed out to me, mainly when it comes to how these chests are dealt with and what doing this might do.

1.) Instead of picking the chest on location, they could simply relocate the chest to a secure area to pick the lock

2.) In some cases, raiders are more interested in destruction first and loot second.

3.) Raiding is hard enough already, please don't make it harder.

4.) Alt vaulting is already a secure alternative to keeping valuables safe during a raid, and is more likely to be used in order to keep the loot instead of losing it at all.

Now i'm sure there are more things to be said about this idea, and i'd like to hear opinions on it from more experienced angles than my own. As for what I have to say about the notes in relation to my suggestion, here are my replies to them.

1.) Instead of picking the chest on location, they could simply relocate the chest to a secure area to pick the lock

This seems like a reasonable way to securely open a loot chest that's locked up tight that could potentially have quite a bit of whatever you'd like to hide in it. Another thing i'd like to add is that in the case of betrayal, in order for someone to gain the MOST out of their backstabbing, they would be required to do it in this way now.

2.) In some cases, raiders are more interested in destruction first and loot second.

This is true, some people are more interested in destroying objects than obtaining them, whether to cripple a rival or simply out of spite. Why give these people the potential to make any profit off of such ventures? any highway bandit can be a brigand that destroys things, but not many bandits make good thieves. Make them work for it I say!

3.) Raiding is hard enough already, please don't make it harder.

I cannot comment on this because I've never been raiding before. Let me know how this would affect your raiding experience.

4.) Alt vaulting is already a secure alternative to keeping valuables safe during a raid, and is more likely to be used in order to keep the loot instead of losing it at all.

This is inevitable, at the end of the day if you want something locked away for no one to get at, you'll alt vault it. the rarest of the rare items will always be hidden away on an alt, but no reasonable human being would have enough alts to keep their entire vault locked away on characters alone. And even then, why would you want to do that? Apart from being overly-security conscious why would you go through all the effort to hide every single bit of good loot on another character? To me it seems like a lot of hassle, and I don't think a majority of people would be willing to do this if they have any sizable fortune to protect. There will be a hierarchy of what loot is more important, and you'll make your decisions based off of that when it comes to alt vaulting. You won't WANT to alt vault every single valuable you have.

Hope to see some talk on this, and to see if we could refine this idea into something workable for the game.

[vatas]

Alt-vaulting is unintended game mechanic in my opinion, but Salem has demonstrated what absolute cancer it is that you can be robbed naked from your Leanto (HF equivalent.) If I was developer and was told to address this, I'd make it so that inventory can be stolen from but not equipment screen. This would mean that coins and tools could be kept safely in a belt, but bars of precious metals, pearls and other valuable items couldn't be made theft-proof.

[Salad]

Alt-vaulting is unintended game mechanic in my opinion, but Salem has demonstrated what absolute cancer it is that you can be robbed naked from your Leanto (HF equivalent.) If I was developer and was told to address this, I'd make it so that inventory can be stolen from but not equipment screen. This would mean that coins and tools could be kept safely in a belt, but bars of precious metals, pearls and other valuable items couldn't be made theft-proof.

Unintended or not, I don't see it going away fully. I don't like it but it's not the main focus of my concerns really. for those people out there who DON'T vault everything on an alt, your only other option is a nicely secured chest, which isn't so nicely secured if you can just bash through that nice steel lock you made for it, hoping it'd slow down the time it'd take for them to steal from you. Another idea I just had is the creation of an unmovable safe container, but that also seems like a pain in the ass and i'm not going to bother thinking too hard on it right now.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

This would mean that coins and tools could be kept safely in a belt, but bars of precious metals, pearls and other valuable items couldn't be made theft-proof.

I am not a raider, I've never been raiding, and I don't generally engage in violence.

Still no.

[Vigilance]

Another idea I just had is the creation of an unmovable safe container, but that also seems like a pain in the ass and i'm not going to bother thinking too hard on it right now.

Yeah, that would be too useless honestly. It'd probably have garbage storage slots and an absurd material cost to justify the utility of it.

P.S. anything having to do with sieging or looting is irrelevant at present if the likelihood of someone legitimately breaking in to your base through the siege system is about 0 because of how unpleasant it is to utilize.

[shubla]

Alt-vaulting is unintended game mechanic in my opinion, but Salem has demonstrated what absolute cancer it is that you can be robbed naked from your Leanto (HF equivalent.) If I was developer and was told to address this, I'd make it so that inventory can be stolen from but not equipment screen. This would mean that coins and tools could be kept safely in a belt, but bars of precious metals, pearls and other valuable items couldn't be made theft-proof.

I think that this is a good idea.
We should be able to right click a hf and steal everything from inventory but not from the equipment.

Only issue maybe is that then you could use this to teleport items..
Maybe you could only steal items when the character is loggd out, and doing this would result in the characters position resetting at hf.

Issue would then be characters without hearth fires. But alt vaulting would be more harder this way.

[vatas]

I completely forgot about the teleport exploit that would become possible if you could simply steal from Hearthfires. Bit embarrassing since I recall at one point being the one to point it out.

[loftar]

If I was developer and was told to address this, I'd make it so that inventory can be stolen from but not equipment screen. This would mean that coins and tools could be kept safely in a belt, but bars of precious metals, pearls and other valuable items couldn't be made theft-proof.

This sounds kind of reasonable on the surface of it, but I'm afraid it will spawn a very large series of adding and adjusting various equipped containers in order to finely tune what can or cannot be stolen out of the hearth-fire in a way that I'm not entirely sure that I like. (For example, the picking basket already provides an... interesting point on this chart.)

Only issue maybe is that then you could use this to teleport items..

Also this.

[Salad]

Yeah, that would be too useless honestly. It'd probably have garbage storage slots and an absurd material cost to justify the utility of it.

Oh that's what that stupid thing is? Neat.

P.S. anything having to do with sieging or looting is irrelevant at present if the likelihood of someone legitimately breaking in to your base through the siege system is about 0 because of how unpleasant it is to utilize.

Just because at present it isn't useful to all the competitive carrot farmers doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place as a security utility in general. as it stands now, I see very little reason to add a bunch of locks onto your containers. people who want to get into them will get into them regardless. At this point, why put a lock on any container and risk it getting bashed so someone can loot it? they'll get everything from it for little to no effort, and you'll be all of your stuff and one container less rich. Keeping an honest person honest doesn't feel like it's worth a steel bar.

[Lyrroth]

Alt vaulting is already a secure alternative to keeping valuables safe during a raid, and is more likely to be used in order to keep the loot instead of losing it at all.

Addressing this.
- If You raid a noob, they won't probably alt vault and even if, the pay-off is probably big nothing.
- If You raid a veteran, they won't alt vault much valuable stuff and even if they have a goodie goodies, they probably have friends / ability to protect them from likes of simple raiders. Unless they are inactive then I guess their alts don't hold much valuable stuff.
- If You raid a faction... You don't. You die if You try and if it's faction vs faction, it won't matter at all. Most valuables even if alt-vauled, are usually moved to another place anyway from my knowledge.

So it's a lot of unnecessary work at least for now. There's literally no pay-off in doing this.
As for locked houses, swim or sink, after all, You're raiding not on a damn vacation. At least chests can't be pinned down.

And I don't recall correctly but If I do, You can hold containers like present box or belts for additional save slots in your pointer (don't know how to word this in any other way), so there's always many ways of workaround.