A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby SnuggleSnail » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:50 am

I feel the ability to:
-Build barter stands in houses;
-Build wagons, or an alternative with similar mechanics in houses;
-Build Sheds in houses;
-Build multiple Subline Porticos in villages;
-Build mineholes with only a 3x3, or preferably 1x1 if it would not be a crime to build both above and below ground;
-Build knarrs on land, or some kind of transportation;
-Allow the ***very costly*** destruction of naturel caves on claimed, or village claimed land;
-Allow easier removal of mine supports;
-MAYBBEEEEEEE reduce the ease with which one can grief underground bases by bashing supports with lice if the previous suggestion is not accepted.

Would be have very little effect on the metagame, but be extremely liberating in terms of allowing more unique village design to still be functional.

Barter Stands, Wagons, Sheds
Barter stands are, in my opinion, a massive gap closer between non-botters and botters.
Want to mass produce and transport bulk eggs? Barter stand.
Cheese tray transportation? Barter stand.
Silk production? You can literally do every step without touching the containers they're kept in.

They GREATLY reduces the manual labor required in most activities, to the point I'd argue it's perhaps one of the largest changes from legacy.
But why is this relevant? You can't build barter stands in houses. Not only does it not make sense from the perspective of somebody who wants to make a cute shop front, but it makes buildings of any kind basically the worst place in game to try and efficiently craft anything. Period.

Allowing us to build barter stands indoors would make crafting stations in houses more desirable, even if in general still inferior to underground crafting areas.
I would make the exact same arguments in favor of sheds/wagons/ovens/coops/bonfires being built indoors, but I mainly care about the Bstands t b h



Multiple Sublime Porticos, Underground Well
One of the logistical hurdles I've had most difficulty overcoming is the transportation of liquids to my underground crafting stations, and animal feeding areas. I'll focus on animals. There are several reasons keeping animals above ground and out of houses is bad, in my opinion:
-Terrible lag, considering you need in excess of a dozen pens, with a significant number of animals in each to efficiently breed them (main issue);
-Not space efficient considering you functionally get more than 5 tiles of underground space for every 1 tile of above ground;
-Some trickery with keeping animals unloaded is sometimes desirable.

Why is this relevant?
The only solution I've found(other than shenanigans with truly massive bases, or satellite bases) to this problem is to have a village on each cave level, with its own sublime portico. Swill is stored on the overworld next to a charter, and simply ported between. The same must be done for honey, water(doughs), and the like, which is why a similar setup cannot be effectively done with a singular portal.

I feel the ability to create, even if it perhaps has an increased authority cost, multiple portals would fix these "issues", and offer no downside.


Easier Placement of Mineholes, and Destruction of Cave Entrances
If one is raided, and their minehole destroyed it would (I imagine) be a significant obstacle in repairing the base. This is a typical minehole exit:
Image
If the minehole were to be destroyed, to replace it one would need to:
1) Destroy the surrounding palisades;
2) Move (previously remove) the claim pole;
3) Bash the mine support;
4) Bash a hole in the external wall (good luck if you don't have a curtain wall).

And it's not as though most villages have exactly one minehole. I'm personally going about 1 minehole to 170 racks, + 2 for general movement. Furthermore, the current requirements strictly make certain designs involving a lot of mineholes impossible, even if you do a bunch of unpleasant building things in a specific order.

I assume(?) the only reason the space required for a minehole nowadays is to prevent minehole raids. I feel keeping the current mechanics for non-crimminal mineholes, and allowing for easier placement when vandalism would be a crime neither above, or below ground will not negatively affect many people's, if anybody's security.

Also, lemme break naturel cave entrances with a battering ram if they're village claimed. I don't have much of a reason other than they're unsightly, and somewhat of a security risk.



knarrs on Land
I would like a large shed.
Knarrs can function as large sheds (and they're AMAZING) if you've an underground lake, or were lucky enough to get one inside your walls before the bugs were fixed.
I imagine if you wanted a large (((mountable))) shed to be a thing everybody has access to, you'd make one... So I don't have a great argument for this other than I want it, I can get it, but the lengths I must go to are kinda poopy.


Allow easier removal of mine supports
The main refutation to disallowing the easy removal of mine supports/debris they cause is that it is desired for the underground to remain dangerous and uninviting.
While I understand this, I would point out:
1) With clever use of game mechanics and abusing objects with soak it is already possible to remove all supports and debris from an underground base;
2) It is already possible to remove all supports/debris by spamming mineholes, though this is both very expensive and must be done is a specific, very cancerous sequence;
3) Mine supports barely if at all reduce the efficiency of the underground, and anybody who doesn't like them feels that way for exclusively aesthetic reasons;
4) Mine supports do not reduce the feel of danger in the underground;
5) Mine support/debris removal can be botted (spamming characters from a charter to rebuild their HFs underground, mainly).

There are other ways the underground could be made more dangerous or uninviting, but with their current state of being far more optional than houses, and less expensive than overworld crafting(exquisite chests) mine supports being excessively unpleasant to remove does nothing but leave my base vulnerable to support griefing with lice, and forcing me to spend the majority of my time is the least attractive part of my base. Mine supports ugly af tbh
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby Oldimaru » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:59 am

WTF!!!
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby Ardennesss » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:49 pm

Snails can't talk
-1
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby itworkss » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:18 pm

I almost thought this post was serious.

Would be down with more porticos in villages though.
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:37 pm

So in other words, you found several ways to exploit game mechanics and want to bend them further? You have some good ideas here, but I'm not sure how you want them to be implemented is the right way to do it.
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby pppp » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:32 pm

Of all these things I would really want bonfire mechanics in great hall.
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby jorb » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:00 pm

Not convinced. Bonfire in hall could be cool, though.
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby jordancoles » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:17 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:efficiently

Reported

RIP account, scumbag :!:
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby SnuggleSnail » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:04 pm

jordancoles wrote:
SnuggleSnail wrote:efficiently

Reported

RIP account, scumbag :!:



You say that ironically, but I'm legitimately concerned somebody's gonna post a screenshot of me crafting meatpies from a knarr with like 60 cupboards open, be confused as to why there's 300 cupboard gobs loaded in and then get me nuked x:

Still, a bonfire in my great hall would be cool : D

MagicManICT wrote:So in other words, you found several ways to exploit game mechanics and want to bend them further?


Sortof. Nothing I've suggested would ever be near as efficient as botting, even if your scripts aren't very advanced. I'd just like a less jarring/ugly looking what to do what I'm already mechanically doing. Except in the case of mineholes. I think their behavior is just un-intuitative and unreasonably punishing.
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Re: A plea for the removal restrictions on construction

Postby SlicingTheMoon » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:52 pm

I support all of this
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