As we all know current combat is all about spamming low cd unarmed attacked on your opponent until one of their opening is large enough for you to make an actual finishing attack move such as Cleave, Chop or any of the various melee combat moves that require a weapon in order to be used. I don't think anyone is going to disagree that this is how current combat works and therefor i would like to suggest to our dear developers to change the various moves that are in the game that make no sense or have no actual synergy with this kind of combat, or we could possibly even buff some of the weaker melee combat moves into some kind of relevance for you to actually put points into melee combat instead of just going pure unarmed combat on every single combat character just because you don't actually lose anything by doing so. However if you would make a melee combat character nowadays you would not be able to be any kind of competetive in combat since you have no actual way of making openings on your opponents since your moves are either too slow, have no weight or just have negative synergy on the move, an example for this move would be full circle but i'll get into that move later on.
Let's examine one of the most common and without doubt the strongest deck that is currently being used by the top players.
When making a deck, the important things you're mostly looking for is: Low cooldown moves that have decent openings. Melee combat move that has synergy with the colors of your low cooldown moves. High value restoration moves.
The final result of all those 3 things combined would most likely get you this deck ten out of ten times.
Attack moves:
Opportunity knocks
Good all around move, the low cooldown of 45 for such a strong move is justified by the initiative cost of 4 and the opportunity cost of that this move is only viable in very few instances of a fight. Doesnt require any kind of change.
Flex
This is without a doubt the 2nd best move in the game, it has everything you want from a move with an added bonus of even reducing blue and red opening on the user only downside is that you don't really gain any kind of chip damage on your opponent which kind of stops being relevant at later stages into the game.
As seen on this picture, Flex beats all other blue opener moves in cooldown to opening ratio and not only that it beats the other low cooldown decent opening moves from the green and yellow color too and the only downside to the move is that it doesnt deal damage which kind of shows how horrible these other moves are.
I would suggest that Flex to be changed somehow but it could stay the same if Left hook could have its cooldown or weight changed significantly since nobody will ever use left hook as their blue opening move as it is now at 40 cooldown.
Steal Thunder clearly needs to have its special function reworked entirely since by the point you can actually steal IP from your opponent that means the opening is large enough for you to use a melee move for damage which kind of makes this move completely useless at is currently, and its cooldown and opening is ridiculously high even for such an ability.
Knock its teeth out
This is the best move in the game by a long shot, we need more moves like this and Flex in the game. Its attack weight of 1 and 20% opening on red with only an argubly low cooldown 35 is balanced out by its cost of 1 initiative points.
I dont think this move is any kind of problematic for the same since the restorations for red are the highest value restorations there is, my problem with this move is that the other moves in red color dont have any kind of way of competing with this move.
Go for the jugular for example This move is almost competing with knock its teeth out when its comes to deck building but it fails to land in any kind of deck because it just doesnt really do what you want from a move, firstly it opens red and green which dont have any kind of common melee move finisher move. Secondly its opening of 15 green and 10 red doesnt justify a minimum of 4 ip(should be 15 red and 15 green). Maybe if these 2 problems are dealt with in some degree, we could see this attack make it into some kind of combat deck. With that said, this move is still going to be an early game only move because you cannot have 45 cooldown 4 ip moves in your deck midgame to lategame Hafen. A different solution to this move could be to make it 1+2 ip and have it deal 10 green 10 red with an 35 cooldown but even then the colors of the moves would still be a pain in the ass to make a deck around.
Quick Barrage is the only move that comes close to competing with knock its teeht out but its held back by its 10% opening on 20 cooldown which is quickly dealt with one zig zag ruse. So at that point you might aswell just put Knock its teeth out in your deck since you're going to gain back 2 ip from your opponent regardless and you're going to get 2 more uses of the move if your opponent uses zig zag. So what we could do with this move to make it competetive with knock its teeth out is we either give it more weight than 1:1 with your mc ratio and higher red opening, i think any of these changes would be fair since that would require the people thinking on abusing this move to deviate from the current path of going pure unarmed combat.
Cleave
Without a doubt the best finisher move in the game. Has clear strenghts and weaknesses. Has the 2 best unarmed combat moves synergizing with its colors(flex and knock its teeth out). Downside is the extreme cooldown of 80 which allows the opponent to punish the user of the move if he would use it badly. Nothing more to say about this move really just a really good well balanced move.
So with that out of the way i would like to see changes made to the moves that are never considered to be in any kind of deck. My problem is mostly with the yellow color moves since they dont make any kind of sense at all, for example we have sideswipe that deals 75% of its weapon damage and has 7.5% opening but the best move to get yellow opening is uppercut(15 yellow opening 30cooldown 0.8 weight) so by the point you're going to deal damage in yellow you're only having a small opening number which means you're dealing low damage and then that low chip damage is reduced by another 25%. This is just horrible if your goal is to kill your opponent and not tickle them to death. Besides that if your opponent got dash or zigzag in his deck you're never getting his yellow opening to a number relevant for your sidewipe to actually deal a decent enough of damage after the 25% damage reduction.
Then we have these jokes for moves
Full Circle
Full Circle is almost a good move its just too bad its attack type is yellow and red and and opening of 15% green. Yellow and red already have good damage dealing attack moves so how about we just make this into an actual useable move for melee combat characters, an example for that would be is that we just change the attack type to a single color and give it 15% attack on the said color, reduce its cooldown to 30 or 35 and put it's attack weight to 1:1 mc instead of 0.9.
Kick
This move should just be the yellow color equivalent of Knock its teeth out.
Takedown
This move could be kept the way it is if yellow is made more viable, we could see this move to be some kind of an early game finisher move.
Low Blow
Why does this move have 50 cooldown and its attack and opening reversed, this move makes absolutely no sense and nobody uses this and never will as it is currently. Nobody is going to willingly put this into their deck for ip gain. But this move is clearly made for hunting or something of the like but even then theres no reason to really use this move when you can just get take aim and knock its teeth out for hunting. So this move needs to have its cooldown reduced significantly especially considering that you have to be in melee range in order to even perform this move and the attack type should just be green or the opening to be blue, i dont see the reason for these 2 to be reversed like this.
Punch 'em both
This move is just a worse version of uppercut, no real use anywhere not even in combat against animals since its base damage is 10. Completely useless against human players too clearly needs to be removed or changed in some kind of capacity
Throwing my coin, maybe someone would get better thing from this:
For some time I was thinking of changing some moves to act like Quick barrage, where IP is generated when certain % treshold is passed as well as for some defenses to generate it as well if certain % is removed.
Yes combat sucks, time to make another bad system.
I'm not sure that I have a strong argument against sketch colors - Jorb, November 2019 http://i.imgur.com/CRrirds.png?1 Join the moderated unofficial discord for the game! https://discord.gg/2TAbGj2 Purus Pasta, The Best Client
I understand that you guys might want another combat system but that shouldnt discourage Jorb and Loftar from making small tweaks to the current system.
We will never have a good combat system because jorb&loftar can only test stuff doing some 1v1 spars and noone really cares about 1v1s, they would have to work together with some "experienced fighters" to create something together that would work in both 1v1 and group combat, but that will probably never happen.
+ you're wrong in many aspects of your post like meele characters (that are actually very usefull if used properly) and the "useless moves" cuz a lot of them are very strong, you came back like a week ago and ur acting like u know everything about the combat system while you aren't even any good at it - no offence hans but posts like yours make jorb confused and they're one of the reasons the system is flawed xd
epicbuds wrote:just got this game a bad review on my website and will post on every forum and game page i can think of to tell people to stay away from this site this game is a joke
viruseg wrote:Kill all new players for no reason. Polish scum came running and killed me with a crowd. Suck fuck fucks..
Ozzy123 wrote:We will never have a good combat system because jorb&loftar can only test stuff doing some 1v1 spars and noone really cares about 1v1s, they would have to work together with some "experienced fighters" to create something together that would work in both 1v1 and group combat, but that will probably never happen.
+ you're wrong in many aspects of your post like meele characters (that are actually very usefull if used properly) and the "useless moves" cuz a lot of them are very strong, you came back like a week ago and ur acting like u know everything about the combat system while you aren't even any good at it - no offence hans but posts like yours make jorb confused and they're one of the reasons the system is flawed xd
Could you point out these strong moves and tell me why you would consider them strong
by HasseKebab » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:28 pm 
