Deep waters. Sea tarnsport.

[ALBUS]

So after the stream, I came up with several ideas and thoughts on sea traveling and stuff. It is obvious that there are other matters for devs to attend to, but I’m too inspired to keep everything to myself.
As far as I know, we are going to encounter vast seas and oceans in the upcoming world. Seas are going to play an important role in transport and trade. In my humble opinion, it would be great to make sea voyages a bit more challenging and dangerous, as well as improve sea transport convenience. In this topic, I shall list several major and minor features that might come in handy or change the gameplay a little.
The most important feature I am about to suggest is the introduction of wind.
It would be nice for sails to actually depend on weather conditions. The wind would matter while traveling under the sail, it would define speed and possible travel direction for vessels that use sails.
In order to move against the wind, we could use hearthling power and paddles. The strength of the crew would define the possible speed against the wind, or allow the vessel to move in case the seas are still. We could also use paddles to increase the speed whenever the wind is fair. So it won’t be only about the quality of the ship.

A storm condition would also be an interesting though a very controversial feature. It would simply damage the ship and make it hard for the ship to move in the desired direction. + It would force to use paddles in order to fight the sea.

Introduction of siege weapons on vessels. That was discussed during the stream, I just would like to add that it might be a good idea to make a sort of an attachable front-end ram in order to damage other vessels during armed encounters on seas, which I hope will happen.

Among lesser features:
Transporting livestock in a Knarr or any other large enough vessel. It would ease the livestock trade and allow players to settle new territories without losing their quality horses, cows, e.t.c.

It would also be nice to introduce a new ship. Cheaper and smaller than Knarr. I would suggest using the Pomor Ladja or a Novgorod Shneka(XI-XIX) as a reference. I read that some of those were just 7 meters long, which is almost twice less than a Knarr. It would be easier to operate(with wind concept) than Knarr and would also use sail (and paddles if the wind concept would ever be implemented). Sort of a utility\fisher vessel.

And the very last is a new glue made out of tree resin and ashes\coals. Such glue was used even in the stone age. It could be used to seal the boats and wooden buckets, general crafting receipts. e.t.c.

[Yorla]

Introduction of siege weapons on vessels. That was discussed during the stream, I just would like to add that it might be a good idea to make a sort of an attachable front-end ram in order to damage other vessels during armed encounters on seas, which I hope will happen

Please, NO! I don't want to be drowned along with my ship just because some... cat wants to play a pirate. And neither I want to loose en expensive knarr.

[Hrenli]

Wind stuff would require quite a lot of new systems to be implemented without giving that much gameplay-wise IMHO. Also I am not sure I understand how fighting the wind could be implemented in "point your destination and wait for arrival" interface we have now.

Transporting livestock on knarrs sounds reasonable (and I always wanted that too) but OTOH it would mean more or less death of the raft.

Devs said during the stream they want to make traversing an ocean dangerous, so something along the lines of sea monsters and storms sounds plausible. As for naval combat I think the current system when you can board enemy boat/knarr and fight there is enough to start with. I'd vote for settling down on basics of ground combat and sieges before moving that to vessels...

[fulma]

I agree with the siege weapons on vessels, but think the wind will be a bit too hard to implement, instead, why not put some kind of coral reef or rocks that cause a bit of damage to the ships and then add a bit of randomness to the ship movement to simulate wind

[MagicManICT]

Wind stuff would require quite a lot of new systems to be implemented without giving that much gameplay-wise IMHO. Also I am not sure I understand how fighting the wind could be implemented in "point your destination and wait for arrival" interface we have now.

"Point and click" movement is exactly what every classic pirate game I've played had.

[Hrenli]

"Point and click" movement is exactly what every classic pirate game I've played had.

Well, the original Sid Mayer's "Pirates!" (classic enough in my eyes) used just keyboard for that. Yes, the wind was quite a factor there but only in the way how fast you go in a specific direction/wind angle. You never had to fight it in a way like, f.e. SoT (which was probably the first time I really felt I am battling the elements trying to steer a vessel through waves in a game and what is the OP trying to propose as I understand), but I don't see how that kind of battling the elements can be implemented in HnH...

How you see it or how is it implemented in other games with point and click interface? I mean fighting the wind and waves. Just adding randomness in where you actually sail to or what? That doesn't sound to me really worth the bother of implementing, but I might be wrong of course.

If we are talking adding wind only and how it affects the sails (as in Pirates!, Sea Dogs, PotBS etc) - that I understand, and it might be nice to have. It might give more reasons to have different types of ships like in the mentioned games (specific ships are better at specific angles to the wind). But it's completely new system which would have to be added exclusively for the ocean part of the game. And the game is not about naval combat. Is it worth it? I am not sure.

[bmjclark]

Among lesser features:
Transporting livestock in a Knarr or any other large enough vessel. It would ease the livestock trade and allow players to settle new territories without losing their quality horses, cows, e.t.c.

This is a big one if rafts can't travel over oceans as rowboats can't.

[MagicManICT]

The only thing that is needed is for the math to be added. The one tweak would be in how objects move when you click. Currently wagons and knarrs have a turn radius of 0, which might be realistic for carts, but not sailing vessels (maybe rowed boats) or 4+ wheeled vehicles.

I think it'd be a great addition to the game, but that's some time down the road. I certainly don't see it being added in the next year or two. And does it need to be exclusively about naval combat to have it and be done right?

As for games that used a mouse point-and-click interface, see other games from the late 90s to early 2000s that were still 2D/3D Isometric before full 3D panoramic cameras became the thing. Port Royale (first or second I believe) comes to mind. I clearly remember this one because of the really cheesy naval tactics of using chain shot to disable sails and then making quick turns with moderately light ships to just pepper the crap out of enemy ships until you could cap or sink them.

This is a big one if rafts can't travel over oceans as rowboats can't.

Maybe some sort of sea barge where you can load multiple animals or carts, but isn't a fast ship. Eight would be a reasonable number, I think. Would be four wagons or carts and four draft animals. (Yeah, you'd have to make a caravan of it.)

[Jackwolf]

If we get a newer, bigger ship then i want to see it not able to enter shallow water and require rowboats to reach it as one does with typical large ships of the general area Haven is set. Only way to get around this is building a dock out into the deep water.

Would also like to only see it able to be built in a specific building; Shipyard, which can only be built in an area with close proximity to deep water (to simulate sliding it off the yard into the water as is done).

[MagicManICT]

"Large ships" of the era Haven is set were triremes, longships, knarrs, etc. Most were very capable of shore landing, though would be large enough to be stranded should they be caught with the the tide out.