Quest LP rewards should be tied into curiosities and hunger

[Sevenless]

Regardless of how we complete quests to get rewards, I think most of the reward balance complaints have either been about hunger or LP. The hunger complaint is something that may be solved by changing the hunger system but lets work with it as is. The LP seems to be about LP rewards that are scaling heavily outside what the game normally provides as it's significantly outpacing curiosities and only getting worse with CHA bonuses rolling in.

For LP rather than pulling a base number from the air, why don't quests dump X hours (plus CHA bonus) into your study window at random. This lets the quests scale with the world because study windows get more powerful as the game goes on. If the CHA bonus hours ever get kind of nutty, this gives a use to really long lived curios (which is another form of autobalancing as long lived curios often have a low LP/hour and high int costs). In general it re-grounds the system in curiosities and helps give some relative sanity checks for current world progress.

Likewise the hunger bonus shouldn't be flat, but scaled by the FEP percentage. Rather than "your stomach has been emptied by 100%" giving you one full bar, it should give you 100% worth of FEP. In the 100% bar, this would be 1:1. In the 300% bar we'd see 1:0.33 . This makes questing viable at all levels of hunger, and significantly dimishes the return for specifically trying to set up a 300% hunger grind questing character. This can still be very powerful or weak entirely depending how the tuning goes but it would certainly spread the potential benefits to a lot more of the game population while curbing the most intense benefits somewhat.

I think the XP bonuses are mostly tuned alright, no one seems to complain about them unless the really tiny ones slip through like <5xp (minimum reward should probably be 50-100xp, mirroring the smallest experience events). I feel like quests that don't merit that much XP reward should just do the dickish "Here's this Q5 dead squirrel" random item handing event instead. At least you know you're getting truly screwed with at that point.

Quality rewards are frustrating because of how scattered they are. Since it's just +1, it's hard to see it as useful when there's 50+ different things it can put that bonus into. Maybe giving the player some agency in the reward by letting them choose 1 of 3 options would help alleviate this. Players could feel like they're having an impact on potentially useful nodes, while quest givers would avoid the issue of "Oh that's a grub quest giver, reroll it for something better" which would frustrate a lot of people as a mechanic imo.

[ErdTod]

That actually sounds like quite good ideas that I like. +1

[Granger]

For LP rather than pulling a base number from the air, why don't quests dump X hours (plus CHA bonus) into your study window at random. This lets the quests scale with the world because study windows get more powerful as the game goes on. If the CHA bonus hours ever get kind of nutty, this gives a use to really long lived curios (which is another form of autobalancing as long lived curios often have a low LP/hour and high int costs). In general it re-grounds the system in curiosities and helps give some relative sanity checks for current world progress.

Given I understand your idea correctly: this seems to replace ice with quests. Boils down to 'I have to quest to LP'.

Likewise the hunger bonus shouldn't be flat, but scaled by the FEP percentage. Rather than "your stomach has been emptied by 100%" giving you one full bar, it should give you 100% worth of FEP.

Could work but would still boil down to 'have to quest so I can FEP'.

Quality rewards are frustrating because of how scattered they are. Since it's just +1, ...

These +1 will add up with time.

[Sevenless]

For your first and second point: I'm trying to give sanity checks to the current quest system. Ultimately what you say they do (active questing gives more LP, more opportunity for FEP) is already in this system. I'm not trying to suggest a new system, just tweak the current one. I disagree with "replaces ice" because ice can still be used on top of it. And I haven't heard people bitching about ice being unbalanced very much, so using a similar system for balancing quests seems reasonable.

I guess the ultimate question is "Should you be able to actively advance your character?" Regardless of how that particular mechanism works it's the debate we're having. As is I'd rather suggest some relatively quick balance fixes to the current system over suggesting a grand overhaul because at this exact minute we need sanity balancing. Unfortunately it's a bit too late to prevent the titan complaints now that people have CHA and the rewards are starting to become obscene.

[Granger]

I think the discussions about ice have died as most people had made their peace with only seeing that object ingame as being walled by someone else.

My point was that there are (as it seems reasonable) complaints about go questing or be stunted. As it looks to me the idea you brought up dosn't seem that helpful when it comes to this, questing would still be the need-to-do.

[Vigilance]

granger is correct, ice is obscenely strong, its just that its a ridiculous resource 99% of people have written off because its not worth the hassle of "hehe i wall it" -> "hehe i drop v-claim on it" -> "hehe u cant raid it because the siege system is bad"

that being said this post confused me because it reeks of 'spergers. can we just cut away LP/hunger from quests entirely and check out the systems in the first place and why people would rather spend 12+ hours a day doing this crap?

[Sevenless]

granger is correct, ice is obscenely strong, its just that its a ridiculous resource 99% of people have written off because its not worth the hassle of "hehe i wall it" -> "hehe i drop v-claim on it" -> "hehe u cant raid it because the siege system is bad"

that being said this post confused me because it reeks of 'spergers. can we just cut away LP/hunger from quests entirely and check out the systems in the first place and why people would rather spend 12+ hours a day doing this crap?

I mean, at that point we should just disable quests entirely shouldn't we? Or would you rather buff the XP/quality bonusing and rework them around that? Removing the only thing people bother questing for isn't really an answer imo. If we're going to do that something needs to replace it.

[DDDsDD999]

granger is correct, ice is obscenely strong, its just that its a ridiculous resource 99% of people have written off because its not worth the hassle of "hehe i wall it" -> "hehe i drop v-claim on it" -> "hehe u cant raid it because the siege system is bad"

Ice is one of the few resources people actually bother doing that for. Especially since they're usually concentrated in an area.

[jorb]

Will consider!