Revamping the Credo System

[DauntlessGolem]

I've been browsing a lot, and it seems that more and more people have a problem with the credo system. There was some good discussion about it talked about here

http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=63780&p=809098#p809098

I think the main problems people have with the system is that it's an invasive game play element. People want to play the game in their defined role, or as a solo hermit, and the system is invasive to both of these play styles by giving the arbitrary and mandatory objectives that don't allign with their surroundings or play style. In the late game, the quests you must do get absolutely ridiculous in number, and the randomness in difficulty lead to an unfair game play experience. There's nothing worse than getting a quest that basically says "Quest: Press the Abandon button Reward: Lose 1 quest progression," especially when you have to grind out 30+ at a time.

The reason I think it's intrusive is because you could mine your entire hearthling's life, but never be a miner, because the quests are too clunky and don't flow well with normal game play, so my idea is a way to fix that.

Make it so to complete a credo, you fill a progression bar as you do what your credo entails. Got the farming credo? Plant and harvest crops. Pearldiver? Collect mussels and go for long swims. Make it so normal game play affects your progression within the credo and make it so that it takes longer to fill this progression bar the more credos you have previously completed. This isn't to say to do away with the quests either, the quest objectives should stay, but instead provide bonuses to fill the progression bar faster. There are a lot of ways this could be implemented and twisted, but as long as normal game play affects credo progression, I think that'll clean up the system as a whole.


Tl;dr: Allow the normal hearthling grind to help us progress our credos, while making the quests sub objectives instead of mandatory ones.

[Agame]

Gorgeous, practical, common-sense idea. They will talk about bots and will not implement it because it is brilliant.

+1, not that it will matter anyway.

[DauntlessGolem]

Gorgeous, practical, common-sense idea. They will talk about bots and will not implement it because it is brilliant.

+1, not that it will matter anyway.

Bots can infect any part of this game given time, although I change I would do would be to make the credos cost XP instead of LP. It will slow down bots, who only do a few tasks, and reward those who invest time into the game. It shouldn't be a super prohibitive cost, but it should be enough that the XP can be regained in a few days. Assuming someone plays for 8 hours every day, the hope is that they complete their first credo within the first 3 days, and then complete their second a week after that. A downside of this system is that it does open up the credos more freely, but I argue that that is a good thing. Specialization should be saved for groups, while hermits can still have access to the entire tree if they so wish (It'll just take em a few months)

[Sevenless]

I don't like the idea of a generic raise by use system because it becomes trivial to bot. Yes I agree bots can infect any part of the game, but you have to admit the current credo system is not easy to bot at all. Bots can help in some ways, but definitely not all. The problem with this new system is that people will start employing bots on their main character just to grind through these credos. As described, this system is unfortunately a perfect example of how raise by use systems get absolutely destroyed by botting. You'll see something silly along the lines of bucketing all over again.

I feel a compromise would be to make a static list of achievements required for the credo. Milestones for X tiles mined, for X levels descended, for X types of ores found/mined. At the very least some of that wouldn't be best to slap a bot on your client and play some other game.

Still not positive I find this to be a fix to the credo system's issues. The dev's aims have been to design mechanics that as much as possible minimize the need for or advantage bots provide. This is a step backwards on that topic.

[Valnar]

Why not instead quest objectives are given difficulty values?
Finding 5 blueberries is just about always going to be less difficult than something like studying a royal mushroom. You can build rough difficulties out of this.

not just for credos but for normal quests too.

Like for each set of quests on a credo reward you have a progression from easy to hard quests, and maybe the last set of quests for the credo is harder in general?

Something to alleviate the pure rnjesus of the system.

[Field]

I like the idea, maybe we could incorporate difficulty level for credos. Like with ancestor quests. You have 3 options, which are decided by stats or effort required to accomplish each.

And let's say easiest quest progresses you normally but is somewhat easy to accomplish, while max difficulty quest progresses you maybe an entire level ahead and f.e. to accomplish it you need pretty amazing gear/or you have to increase your stats significantly. This would probably mitigate the issues we have with credos nowadays.

(I also like the idea with passive grind to progress credo, but the raised points that it could be botted speak strongly against it)

[terechgracz]

Start banning bots. There are algorithms that allow for automatic detection of such behaviour. Just lol at devs trying to limit bots by fucking gameplay for casual player instead just reading few articles and implementing such algorithm. Just imagine, having list of botters, tping to them and killing with one uber punch. Isn't that fun for dev to have permission for killing such bastards without hesitation? And imagine us casual players finally having fun with this awesome game.

[jorb]

Start banning bots. There are algorithms that allow for automatic detection of such behaviour. Just lol at devs trying to limit bots by fucking gameplay for casual player instead just reading few articles and implementing such algorithm. Just imagine, having list of botters, tping to them and killing with one uber punch. Isn't that fun for dev to have permission for killing such bastards without hesitation?

Just lol at you talking shit about subjects you don't understand

[jorb]

@ OP: Terrible idea. Just run a bot doing that.

[Granger]

I would like credos to give us a list of twice the stuff we currently have to do per level upfront and then let us work on that at our own leisure, with the ability to hand in the current level (to get to the next) when we're done with at least half of the laundry list.

When we handed in all 5 levels give an additional bonus scaled to all the extra stuff we completed.