Food & Curio balance fix for once and for all!

[shubla]

I have a great idea to fix curiosity and food balance issues.

Basically. The less X-curio is studied globally, the more LP they give.
The less food x is eaten globally, more FEP's they give.
And reverse the effect when they are eaten or studied a lot.

This way, foods that are OP will be automatically nerfed, as people will start making them. And foods that are shit will slowly become better!

[Field]

And that helps us now, how? The moment the bad foods become somewhat OK they're going to instantly drop to insignificant level since we have satiations that work like they do. (Given that the good food vs the bad food would satiate other things.) Also, who will define 'bad foods' here.

All variations of certain recipe = "one" food?

If not, are you going to force your main to eat food which he clearly doesn't need with how hunger and satiations cripple us?

If yes, then this is going to be extremly awkward and encouraging already bad situation with alts. "Oh man, I ate too much of X foods and they're bad on top of everything that Jorbtar gave us, time to log in my crafter alt to make him gobble those DEX sausages and buns!" - repeat.

You didn't think this through, did you? Very bad idea.

I don't like the idea for curios either.

And with this one, I genuinely feel you're just trolling, but have this.

[Sevenless]

So you have the satiations scale as well. I dunno if shubla's trolling or not, but it's an idea I'm sure has been considered, and it could work.

My knocks against it are mostly over transparency (short of a very non-immersive UI, this will be impossible for the average person to navigate). You also have the issue of power imbalance (maybe glass curios aren't used by anyone because sand sucks, then one faction gets a good sand node and bam their glass curios are overpowered since no one else uses them) that might be hard to keep sane.

I also don't have a problem with some foods or curios not being used. I do think we should stop having ones that are laughably bad, but just meh is ok to exist imo.

[Field]

I want to know if they are all starting at base level in mind and scaling as people use them or not. Some foods are good but don't satiate what you need and will be upgraded to overkill. Then there's newbie foods that are good for certain levels. There would be times with this solution for foods where being a noob bends you over in +1 more way, because certain foods suddenly are good. I might be overestimating the effectiveness of scaling in this case, but with so little input from shubla, I can't make out much of it.

Regarding curios - it all balances out. Would it help some lower level players catch up - I think so. Would it matter that much so we should implement whole system for it?

[Aceb]

W10 ended You can stop with troll ideas.

[Oswald3]

W10 ended You can stop with troll ideas.

Trolls are already in the game. Shubla wasn't suggesting that devs add trolls, he suggest that they fix FEPS and curios.

[Aceb]

W10 ended You can stop with troll ideas.

Trolls are already in the game. Shubla wasn't suggesting that devs add trolls, he suggest that they fix FEPS and curios.

[MooCow]

Hidden Rant

You can stop with troll ideas.

We get it, everyone hates shubla. Every idea he has is terrible, even the good ones. How dare he care about this game enough to be an active form member for 6 years. /s

If his ideas are so bad, why don't you take the time to explain why? If your way of thinking is so much better than his, why not try to convince him? 90% of his troll ideas are suggestions to make this game more hardcore/brutal or silly. Is it really so hard to believe that he actually wants the game to be both harder and filled with goofy bullshit?

I genuinely like his posts. As long as the ideas are semi-original, posting half baked thoughts isn't a bad thing. This form is for discussion, something we can choose to take part of.

Posts about how awful you think shubla is, only derail the conversation, and are FAR more annoying and redundant than the thing you are complaining about.
If you want to discuss your hatred of shubla, make your own thread so that I can ignore it.

This actually seems like a really good. As long as the trends don't go too fast, and get locked-in while studying, I really like this idea. Harder to make curios will naturally become worth more LP and the system should generally self regulate.

Imagine a time when dandelions might actually be worth picking!

[jorb]

Idk. Some argument for automatic rebalancing, but there's also the risk that that just eventually makes all curios be about the same.

[pppp]

makes all curios be about the same.

It's what closed loop control does, isn't it ?

Also, in fact, not necessarily, because what you are going to have is balancing arbitrarily sampled or averaged usage vs arbitrarily sampled/average usage of other things.
It's like trying to control temperature in a huge hall by heating in one corner and measuring in another. There will be obviously some cooler and warmer areas because heat would not distribute in an uniform way. To make it closer to uniformity and reduce differences one would need to stir the air.

Same with food/curios. If you try to balance global consumption, measured by pieces or by lp/FEPs then obviously some people will have access to better resources than others do and they would get more out their curios/food so they will effectively deplete certain item groups for the general public. This can be illustrated by following example.

Imagine a floating raft. Water level is represented by underscores. In one case it is flat and 4 blocks out of 8 are underwater and surface above water is 4 blocks. In the second case also 4 blocks out of 8 are underwater but the surface available above water is only one block, basically meaning only one person can sit comfortably above water. (water level translates to averaged and controlled curio/food yield)

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It all depends on how the good stuff is distributed between continents and how easy will be to trade later in the world. Trading corresponds to stirring the air in the heating example. If goods exchange works well there will be less disproportions in curio/food usage. If trading is hampered or people keep good resources for themselves (sure they do) then usage of some items will be dominated by few people.

In my opinion the system has a chance to work well with food, especially with farmed foods because each crop has to be raised in q separately, potentially allowing for nice niches for people who grow less popular crops. It will work much worse with items dependent on metals/strings/wood/clay, primarily curios, because quality of each part depends on others and it is quite easy to grow high q oranges (well, persimmon then) if one already has high q apples.