Flipping hunger upside down: Reworking hunger WoW style

[Sevenless]

So I know I said the dreaded words about any MMO, "Lets make it like WoW!", but I think there's a lesson to be had from early WoW days.

http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2010/0 ... st-system/ (I'm sorry this is a terrible article about it but it's such an old topic it's hard to find good links)

Long story short, by re-framing an "overactive XP penalty" into a "You just woke up, here's some bonus XP" gamers all of a sudden became much happier with the system. Taking that in the light of haven's hunger mechanic, it's interesting how most people view it as a penalty and not a benefit. And this in part has to do with the idea that over-using it is bad for you, just like the XP in WoW. With that in mind:

-Hunger is a static buff that pushes you above 100% FEPs. 100% being the baseline feels good as a player, dipping below that doesn't feel fun. The scaling can't be as intense as currently (3x baseline since most energy intensive characters still end up in the 100% range is still too much. I think most people would expect more along the lines of something between 125-150%)
-Hunger is accumulated over time, similar to the current system
-Buff can accumulate a decent amount of time (2-3 days?) so casual players aren't punished. Too long and it becomes alt empowering though.
-The hunger buff is only activated by eating at a table (no one has to feel like they're wasting their buff), % hunger stats on food doesn't need to be scrapped or completely reworked
-Symbel/bonfire improve the % bonus from hunger, I'm not sure they need anymore functionality than that.
-Satiation system continues to act as partner. Properly tuned to feel like people can force advancement, but also so speeding up character stat growth comes at a scaling cost.

This rework allows hunger to continue existing, and clears up the major issue: energy heavy characters being forced into low % hunger. This rework would also give opportunity to fix the "I can only advance if I quest constantly", but only in the sense of rebalancing the reward to be flat instead of scaling. Because hunger becomes a flat bonus (+ symbel) everyone now benefits equally from time spent questing (other than CHA differences) instead of needing to sit at minimum hunger to get the full bonus. It also gives an opportunity to retune the balance of how much benefit is derived from questing, but frankly a rework isn't needed for that.

Also it makes hunger feel like a good thing. Gaining hunger is good, where in the current system "gaining hunger from food" comes off as bad and that's just weird.

[svino]

-The hunger buff is only activated by eating at a table (no one has to feel like they're wasting their buff), % hunger stats on food doesn't need to be scrapped or completely reworked

yes, i have no idea why this is not in the game yet. It's really sad that you need to use alts to chop trees and dig out plots.

[Sevenless]

-The hunger buff is only activated by eating at a table (no one has to feel like they're wasting their buff), % hunger stats on food doesn't need to be scrapped or completely reworked

yes, i have no idea why this is not in the game yet. It's really sad that you need to use alts to chop trees and dig out plots.

My last batch of trees cost my alt 6k energy. That's a food bar trashin' if I ever seen one. I would absolutely prefer my main do this for convenience but alas.

[CSPAN]

I’m down for this. To be competitive, you’re forced to do hours of questing, praying for hunger reduction. And if you’re a miner, the current system is a big fuck you.

Hunger and satiation, IMO as a miner, the most pressing issue with the game.

[MagicManICT]

Long story short, by re-framing an "overactive XP penalty" into a "You just woke up, here's some bonus XP" gamers all of a sudden became much happier with the system.

Proper attribution where due: Everquest. you're welcome. Fun fact: WoW devs were massive hard-core EQ geeks.


That said, I'm in favor of anything that removes the current system that can be so heavily gamed that it just creates bigger advantages to those that manipulate and exploit the flaws.

[Sevenless]

I've always heard the story with regards to rest XP during WoW test/development beta stages. How is EQ involved?

[MagicManICT]

EQ devs created that little "bonus xp" thing. It allowed those who could only weekend warrior keep up with those of us who could treat the game like a full time job... err hobby, yeah, that's what I meant. I just want proper attribution for the design concept. Fuck WoW... all the did was rip off EQ.

[Sevenless]

EQ devs created that little "bonus xp" thing. It allowed those who could only weekend warrior keep up with those of us who could treat the game like a full time job... err hobby, yeah, that's what I meant. I just want proper attribution for the design concept. Fuck WoW... all the did was rip off EQ.

It's not really about the creation of bonus XP concept though, more about people saying "I get 100% xp for 2 hours and then 50% after that is shit!" turning around and loving "Oh wow I get 200% for 2 hours and then it goes back to normal, this is awesome!"

That said, I'm stil a UO fan :<

[Field]

That's neat, I wonder what Jorbtar think about this?
I think general rework of the whole satiations and hunger is in place. It's only going to get worse as the world progresses.

[loskierek]

tbh seems like it would allow a hermit to stay competitive and anything which allows a person to thrive without an army of alts is a great idea in my book. Personally loathe alts, but still am forced to have a labourer or else i would be at 50% satiation 24/7 while my farmer mate sits in 200+ with same effort put into the game