Resource claims are too cheap & easy

[Granger]

Example that I got from a friend who asked me about options:

cheapclaim.jpg

Sized 65x79 tiles

Needed to build:
1 dream, 4 bone, 5 blocks, 4 stone
4.5K LP for Yeomanry and prerequisites
4K LP to place 2nd claim
8 hours wait for soak
51.5K LP for size extension
Worst case being claim getting destroyed while not yet active and 4K LP lost.

Needed to maintain:
Put bond in mentory of a reasonably developed character with access to good curiosity diet for 24h once every some weeks.

Needed to be able to remove:
124.5K LP for Vandalism (and pre-requisites containing Rage, Theft and Trespassing)
Hulk style STR with Sledgehammer (and some chests of food) or a Wreking Ball (with the 24h wait time)
Worst case is being treated with Nidbanes (as leaving Vandalism scents) resulting in Death (as Rage being prerequisite for Vandalism).

Also the cost (except the strength requirement) and risk to gather from such a claim is identical to removing it as digging counts as Vandalism.

Bottom line
I think claims on resources are way too cheap & easy to make and maintain, compared to circumventing or removing them.

This leads to a tank rush style of dropping claims on every location that looks remotely interesting in the goal of denying access to 'the enemy' (=everyone else) or as a preventive measure against them doing the same. And as an active claim dosn't constitute a real cost to the owning character the ones that are not actively used don't get declaimed (but best case expire over time, unless forgotten in the mentory of a claim alt that is run throught an EXP farm anyway) and get in the way of experiencing the game for the ones that don't see and play H&H from a 'winner takes all' RTS perspective.

Meaningful gameplay is also hindered as most players hardly have a reason to visit these claimed areas, they're unable to interact with them anyway, so encounters that would naturally happen at a resource spot available to all... simply don't.

Thus I suggest the way claims are fuled with presence is to be changed, preferably in a way that a settlement can be protected by one - but random (seldomly or never visited) spots of nature not. Ideas on how to achieve this are welcome.

[shubla]

You are just jelly of not having your own hq resource spot.

I dont see any issues with claiming resources.
Make alt with vandalism.

[Fostik]

Unwalled claims must be able to be destroyed way easier.
There is no need to raise hardness level of claiming land - take a pity on noobs and casuals

[MagicManICT]

Simply drop soak on pclaim from 10 to 5?

[Granger]

Make alt with vandalism.

I think you missed the point that not everyone wants to play H&H as a RTS.

There is no need to raise hardness level of claiming land - take a pity on noobs and casuals

I thought about claim presence being generated by the owner actually being present, that shouldn't raise the problems of noobs and casuals.

Simply drop soak on pclaim from 10 to 5?

According to http://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Personal_Claim the soak is 15.
Making it easier to break would also give problems when erecting it in the first place (before wall is up), thus I look at presence generation...

[Lojka]

i think best idea was about personnaly living on a claim, and like being online, not just offline alting on it

[Sevenless]

Thus I suggest the way claims are fuled with presence is to be changed, preferably in a way that a settlement can be protected by one - but random (seldomly or never visited) spots of nature not. Ideas on how to achieve this are welcome.

This has been a problem for the entire 8 years I've been playing, bringing it up again without a suggestable solution is unfortunately kind of pointless. The current solution seems tolerable to me, nodes are huge. Yes you can reasonably claim the peak, but 1-2 Q points down and it starts getting pretty big on any quality worth caring about. As to the RTS comment, in a permadeath game it's inevitable that the solution to some mechanics will involve alts. Not everything can be done without alts having advantages, and any kind of theft/vandalism related scent will always suffer that.

But since I'm here, spitballing, should there be a way to contest a claim? How does that impact hermits? "If it's walled it doesn't work" just means many resource claims will have mini palisades around them so that doesn't fly. How expensive should ownership be, and would it actually change anything? If the resource is valuable, people will pay to keep it. If it's not valuable they won't. More expensive claims wouldn't necessarily solve this problem, people would still put out the expense to claim what they feel is needed to be claimed wouldn't they? Sneaker strategies (drop a counter claim, if they don't find and nuke it in X time you get claim) would encourage bot patrols and probably feel like a terrible mechanics. Authority competition as I suggested for localized resources would be pretty terrible for hermits in general. Pclaim scaling costs being ridiculously high would hurt hermits badly since the claim you showed is pretty modest for a hermit abode even.

I see no answers here, and the situation is imo the best it's ever been. Polishing the turd, but still true.

[shubla]

Presence only grows when you study curios and they finish while you are in the claim area.
But even then it would be relatively easy to just bring some curios to alt every now and then.
So it wouldnt really solve anything.

And there may be legitimate reasons to have multiple claims. For example, in caves under your place.

[Sevenless]

Presence only grows when you study curios and they finish while you are in the claim area.
But even then it would be relatively easy to just bring some curios to alt every now and then.
So it wouldnt really solve anything.

And there may be legitimate reasons to have multiple claims. For example, in caves under your place.

I have a shared minehole with my neighbours, it's wedged between our two places where we can't Vclaim due to proximity and we use Pclaims to keep our walling system safe.

[Mr_Bober]

Needed to be able to remove:
124.5K LP for Vandalism (and pre-requisites containing Rage, Theft and Trespassing)
Hulk style STR with Sledgehammer (and some chests of food) or a Wreking Ball (with the 24h wait time)
Worst case is being treated with Nidbanes (as leaving Vandalism scents) resulting in Death (as Rage being prerequisite for Vandalism).

I'm not sure a sledgehammer is enough. We tried taking down a claim (no sledge yet), and we got a message "You can't destroy active claims" or something along those lines, so not a STR problem.
Haven't tested with the W-ball yet.

I agree the current system is broken