New Siege Implementation: Siege Claims

[ErdTod]

- Basically, active sieging can be done only if both parties are online

So one can never log in to avoid being raided ?

No, if you are offline for some period of time, you can be raided for free - this is described in the non-bold text. And, well, if you never log in, are you even playing?

Also consider two overlapping claims, vclaim slightly larger than pclaim. Pclaim overrides vclaim so everyone inside have permission to pclaim and live normally. The village has only one member which never is online. except to reload curio. Outer wall is on vclaim but not on pclaim. 100% immunity.

PClaims inside village claims are considered a part of village.

[mgmmads]

So we are back to having to leave alts online to set off alarms when no one is around, as we can't go to sleep without someone who wants to siege us, finding out where we live, our time zone, when we work, shower, eat.. and start a siege 10 minutes after we log off? The new addition does indeed need some work, but making the time between "we want to siege" and "Wall going down" any less than it is now would mean an ocean of people will drop due to the stress it creates having to worry about your place 24/7, instead of knowing "I'm going to work now, and it's impossible for a siege to have started by the time i return, so i can retaliate and plan a defense when i'm back".

Just my 10 cent, w10 was a stress inducing horror show, due to how little time it took from catapults went up, until they started hammering at your shield. Sieging a village is a massive thing in this game, it should be treated as such, and not something that is done as a "side activity". Loosing a village / all the progress a group of players put into the game, should come at the aggressors price by needing a ton of preparation and a huge time invested, not something casual everyone can engage in.

[pppp]

PClaims inside village claims are considered a part of village.

Exploitable both ways. One thing is donut or just a single tile for claim stone left out of vclaim, depending on implementation. The other thing is leaving a pclaim in the way of village expansion and then when village expands, keeping online claim owner to trick the system into thinking someone in the village is active.

[ErdTod]

PClaims inside village claims are considered a part of village.

Exploitable both ways. One thing is donut or just a single tile for claim stone left out of vclaim, depending on implementation. The other thing is leaving a pclaim in the way of village expansion and then when village expands, keeping online claim owner to trick the system into thinking someone in the village is active.

True that.

However, I don't see a good way to distinguish a donut defensive structure from a normal village. They are good way to set back attackers in all the siege implementations.

For the second part - what if there's a check that PClaim owner should also be a part of village on at the moment of coverage? So even if you expel owner, unless claim is declaimed, it is considered part of village for said mechanics. If the claim is not a part of village at the moment of coverage of it by village claim, it has no effect on sieging for next 48 hours. After that it is considered part of village. Villages would steal have to deal with claims on the way of their expansion.

[pppp]

PClaim owner should also be a part of village on at the moment of coverage? So even if you expel owner, unless claim is declaimed, it is considered part of village for said mechanics. If the claim is not a part of village at the moment of coverage of it by village claim, it has no effect on sieging for next 48 hours. After that it is considered part of village. Villages would steal have to deal with claims on the way of their expansion.

I think it could be possible to bypass it via permissions (party or raw). Claim owner does not need to be a part of village at any point. It just has to be setup before village is placed. The village founders need pclaim permissions for the moment of placing vclaim only. Even if village is later expanded, beyond the initial pclaim it will always serve as a next 48 h roadblock.

[Vert]

When a siege machine would (criminally) deal damage to a wall object, a siege claim is created centered on the object where damage was dealt. The siege claim is created only on tiles where (any of the) claims present on the attacked object are also present, and at most within a 100x100 square. I think that may fix Ysh's and shubla's complaints. Further siege damage under the siege claim will raise the claim's Authority. When, and only when, the Authority of the siege claim is above a certain level, the siege machine can damage the actual wall object, and raze it.
Siege claims can only gain some fixed amount of Authority per unit of time, much like claim shields could only lose some amount per time.
Siege claims lose authority over time, much like claim shields would have gained it.
New siege claims created overlapping already existing siege claims are created with half of the old claims authority.
Siege machines have a very short initial drying period. Walls off-claim can be taken down almost immediately.
Brick walls require more authority than palisades to actually be damaged.
Much like in world 10, and now, the siege machines break down when used or moved, and have some repair cooldown.
Nearby claims are warned when siege claims are created, rather than when siege engines are as is now the case.

Can you say exactly numbers?
siege must give fun, loot and some advantage to defenders. I dont see anything of this in new system.
villages that surrounded another village still a thing and it takes much more time to raid them for no reason.
its simple for me if you try protect youself and make some active action you can increase siege time, But if you just build few villages and after that time of raid increase x2 witout any active action from defenders then your siege system doesnt work.

[ErdTod]

PClaim owner should also be a part of village on at the moment of coverage? So even if you expel owner, unless claim is declaimed, it is considered part of village for said mechanics. If the claim is not a part of village at the moment of coverage of it by village claim, it has no effect on sieging for next 48 hours. After that it is considered part of village. Villages would steal have to deal with claims on the way of their expansion.

I think it could be possible to bypass it via permissions (party or raw). Claim owner does not need to be a part of village at any point. It just has to be setup before village is placed. The village founders need pclaim permissions for the moment of placing vclaim only. Even if village is later expanded, beyond the initial pclaim it will always serve as a next 48 h roadblock.

Hm, yes, you are right... Exploitable. I.e. sieging your own village to remove such a poop-claim might be problematic. Gotta think more on that idea.

[jock]

I hate the idea that a village in many cases takes weeks if not months to build, support and establish. Should have ANY risk to be raided within 24 hours.

Comparing to rl. Sieges took weeks. Don't belittle the requirement and value you get from sieging.

You go to far and it WILL kill thos world. Don't rush this change for the sake of 5% of the loudest people complaining.

[Hrenli]

Comparing to rl. Sieges took weeks.

And how long building a settlement takes IRL? "Slightly" more than just a few weeks.

[jorb]

And reading an anatomy book to learn about surgery is also like reading a book to learn to ride bycicle, amirite? Because intellectual pursuits are exactly the same as muscle memory tasks. Hubris, thy name is Jorb. How can you learn anything if you think you're already smarter than everyone else? Dismissing wisdom of people with a lot more experience just sets you up for reinventing the wheel over and over again. Along the same veins, your "feel free to come up with better suggestions" isn't a genuine invitation, it's a challenge meant to prove how you're smarter than anyone here because your ideas are better, as you usually just dismiss player suggestions without giving them much consideration. Inb4 banned from forums again for wounding Jorb's ego (you guys should really put that in forum guidelines).

You can certainly read and benefit from concrete code examples, technical standards, documentation, &c, and while programming and learning you will be doing that all the time. That would be the anatomy book, dealing with, you know, concrete things, and actual questions you might have. This book you recommended, however, is the coding equivalent of Tony Robinson teaching you about the power of positive thinking, the seven habits of highly effective people, and other great Buzzfeed articles.

You're trying to teach us about game development, and loftar about programming, and I have hubris. Sounds about right.

Life is tricky, baby. Stay in your magic.