Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby Kaios » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:36 am

Hasta wrote:Yeah, a powerful group of dedicated players (I took it upon myself to stop using cuss words now) can claim small/hermit settlements by force and deny them any beneficial buffs, with little to no possibility for victims to ever fix their situation, lest they move far, far away.


It’s dumb but someone put the time and effort in to gathering the resources to create it and they are not cheap so why should it be so simple as the click of a button to deny experience to a realm when it’s what they hinge on to remain active, something which affects every realm including those that may have been created by smaller villages and hermits as well. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be opportunity for rebellion but why should it be easy.

Perhaps I’m a bit biased as I managed to create a relatively expansive kingdom with decent buffs through a majority of my own effort and being supplied and assisted mostly by a few other guys. What helped even more were the people I claimed over because I interacted with them and helped them and in return they helped me.

Building walls is not difficult especially when it’s at locations close to your own place and that is pretty much half the work required in order to get a siege going if the cairns are walled off. If they aren’t walled off then I don’t think siege machinery is even required to break the cairn after the challenge becomes active so the walls built will help to ensure a safe place to retreat to. Could probably shoot catapults since there’s no claim shield, I dunno. If they delay the challenge that’s more experience lost to them.

Obviously those hermits are valuable to someone if they were bothered to be claimed over at all and if there is another realm that wants them instead or that they would prefer to be under then I assume it would be beneficial to work together on that.

I'd say, "rebel against King" should be a toggle Spell, like criminal acts or swimming;
- it can be activated only on a territory of one kingdom, and have an internal cooldown of a week or more;
- it should put you in a state of "active rebel" for some time, maybe 12-24 hours (similar to "criminal", but only on the territory of said kingdom) - I feel the possibility to add some bonuses to destroying cairns, but with that comes a lot of exploitables, so this one needs a think tank;
- after "active rebel" wears off, you become a "passive rebel" (a partisan or whatever, a sleeper hunta cell member) for until the internal cooldown of "rebel against king" reaches zero (let's say, a week). Some limitations apply as well on the duration of this one - anything making your life inconvenient from increased travel weariness cost to inability to acquire/complete quests on the kingdom's territory.
- and finally you receive a permanent "denounced the King" buff that prevents you to receive ANY kingdom bonuses. All debuffs and limitations wear off. This can be removed by pledging allegiance to an active kingdom (lawspeakers or chiefs or whatever you guys who are not hermits have).


I’m not saying it’s a bad idea but I don’t see how that changes the need for someone to actually do something about the realm over them if they want to ever get decent buffs and don’t intend to move.

welp, then bend over and relax your sphincter


It’s not an inaccurate assessment of what is usually the most optimal method in this game when it comes to dealing with certain issues though
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby Hasta » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:57 am

Being a criminal for 24 hours and being impeded for a week is hardly "a click of a button"; in my scenario, the experience deny begins when you complete the rebellion and receive "denounced the king" buff.

I can see how this may be frustrating for "orderly citizens" and even more so for the highest in the land.

Let's say you may rebel not by using a spell, but by building and activating an object (a Rebellion Flag, somewhat less expensive than whatever you need to make a Kingdom - a coronary tract or whatever). When that flag is activated, there is a notification in the Kingdom chat. You may build one only on the kingdom's territory, ofcourse, but probably should restrict those to Overworld? Destroying the object before rebellion is complete will interrupt the rebellion and put the rebel into "subdued" state for another week (that is, if he's still alive).

The "forces of order" may choose to pressure "rebels" into destroying their own "rebel flag"; siege them and destroy it, then kill/drive off all the rebels etc etc.

As for the incentive for rebels - you're right, I've missed that they won't get anything but the satisfaction of denying XP leechers the satisfaction. Hence, probably "Denounced the King" buff should have some small, almost token bonus, neglectable in comparison to a bonus of a developed kingdom but still something more than a fake cairn brings. I don't really know what bonuses kingdom have exactly, so I'll let you suggest the numbers.
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby Hrenli » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:18 pm

Fierce_Deity wrote:If a kingdom with no buffs reached its dirty tentacle over me i'd want to be able to deny them xp from me.


You have shitload of options:

1. Don't login and deny them your xp;
2. Move away and deny them your xp;
3. Build your own realm (or find existing one), challenge the cairn and destroy it, denying them your xp;
4. Work with them to raise the buffs and don't deny them your xp;

Bat naaah, better to have a special snowflake "I disagree with you but wan't do anything about it" button in the UI...
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby azrid » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:58 pm

As long as there is an arrow pointing towards the person who is denying their experience to the kingdom they live in it could be a cool way to create more player interaction.
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby Sevenless » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:19 pm

I think the people who are asking for this don't realize that the point of a realm is to make everyone inside it at least marginally valuable to the big boys in the area. This has significantly cut down on the amount of hermit slaughter from local factions. Definitely doesn't mean every faction cares, but a lot have warmed up to hermits hanging around. Besides, there's currently areas of the world that will never get a realm like islands with no monoliths or blood trees, so that option exists.

The problem I see with any kind of interior rebellion is that the only people who will survive doing so are basically other factions somehow abusing the system. A little hermit who jabs his finger into the reigning faction's eye is going to get promptly slaughtered. Other factions have legitimate ways to contest claims.

I don't think this is a good idea to implement because the only way it would be fair would be to somehow call out the people doing so. And the only players who would really care about this as opposed to founding a contesting kingdom couldn't survive that kind of attention.
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby stya » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:34 pm

Sevenless wrote:I think the people who are asking for this don't realize that the point of a realm is to make everyone inside it at least marginally valuable to the big boys in the area. This has significantly cut down on the amount of hermit slaughter from local factions. Definitely doesn't mean every faction cares, but a lot have warmed up to hermits hanging around. Besides, there's currently areas of the world that will never get a realm like islands with no monoliths or blood trees, so that option exists.

The problem I see with any kind of interior rebellion is that the only people who will survive doing so are basically other factions somehow abusing the system. A little hermit who jabs his finger into the reigning faction's eye is going to get promptly slaughtered. Other factions have legitimate ways to contest claims.

I don't think this is a good idea to implement because the only way it would be fair would be to somehow call out the people doing so. And the only players who would really care about this as opposed to founding a contesting kingdom couldn't survive that kind of attention.


That. And if you want to contest a kingdom, build your own and contest the borders.
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby LaserSaysPew » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:43 pm

If every hermit that opts out will be slaughtered then what's the problem, guys? This possibility will keep them in line, won't it?
The problem is that some of you are actually members of that said faction that built fake realm. And you will have to run around forcing hermits on some far off empty realm to opt back in instead of fighting for your own realm. You will actually have to maintain that griefing shit instead of "just build and forget". So yeah, I see why you're against it. Obviously, you want to fight HH or someone else instead of running around hermits in some faraway land threating them over and over.
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby borka » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:10 pm

-snip- fake realm -snip- to block HH from expanding


If its not just a matter of a few days more till they set up to give you buffs you might think about moving onto HH realm if you think you'd get buffs there ... (if you do so make sure you have a naked alt at hand ;) )
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby LaserSaysPew » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:42 pm

borka wrote:If its not just a matter of a few days more till they set up to give you buffs you might think about moving onto HH realm if you think you'd get buffs there ... (if you do so make sure you have a naked alt at hand ;) )

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This is what the throne village looks like. Yeah, I'm sure, couple more days and there will be lots of buffs. Everything totally points to that.
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Re: Ability to opt out of sharing xp with realm

Postby Winnfield » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:01 am

If this option ever was implemented;

1. You shouldnt get ANY of the buffs that realm has to offer while you are opting out of feeding that realm experience (although im not sure how that might work for such things that are terrain based like growth speed)

2. You would be considered an outlaw whilst inside a kingdom you dont want to pay your taxes to (essentially)

3. Hunting these players down and either knocking them out or killing them would take a sum of experience from them directly from their experience pool (only inside the realm ofcourse).

Might seem like harsh consequences but as most of these guys say, your alternative is getting a group together and erecting your own kingdom to oppose, being taken over territory wise is part of what this game has to offer.
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