Another take on catchup

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Another take on catchup

Postby pppp » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:52 am

TL;DR: Give bonus to those who are not top in any given stat.

For Attributes: FEPs shall be given a bonus scaling from 200% (almost) to 100% depending on stat value. 200% would be given at 0 stat, 100% (no bonus) would be given at stat equal to current world max.
The formula is "x (1+(<world max>-<current stat>)/<world max>)*100%"
In a theoretical two char world that would work as follows:
  • Char A 1000 Str, 10 to all other stats
  • Char B 500 to all stats
When char A eats pure str food he gets (1+(1000-1000)/1000)*100% = 100% (x 1) = no bonus. When he eats any other pure stat food he gets (1+(500-10)/500)*100% = 198% (x 1,98) bonus (because he is hoplessly falling behind in these stats).
When he eats 50/50 str/cha food he gets no bonus on str part and 198% bonus on cha part, so 50/50 food gives 50/99 (= 34/66 rescaled) FEPs. Because he gets more FEPS total he will not slow down in str progress but will get some extra points in other stats.

When char B eats pure str food he gets (1+(1000-500)/1000)*100% = 150% (x 1,5) bonus. When he eats any other pure stat food he gets (1+(500-500)/500)*100% = 100% (x 1) = no bonus
When he eats 50/50 str/cha food he gets 150% bonus on str part and no bonus on cha part, so 50/50 food gives 75/50 (= 60/40 rescaled) FEPs.
This chat might be affected by escaping str so he shall focus on foods that give smaller percentage of str but he will get more FEPs total anyway so balanced growth of stats can be achieved with less food.

That means, given the same amount of food both chars will receive extra stat increases in stats where they are falling behind, while not losing gains in stats they are focusing at.

That will lead to global flattening of stat differences. Both fighters and crafters will have their stats affected by the other group but also they may still skip the part they are not interested in. That will also inevitably help raise psy in chars that sometimes eat psy-related foods but are less interested in raising it.

For Abilities: the same formula shall be used, except for the sake of clarity the factor will be used to divide LP cost instead of multiplying used LPs.

Whole system will obviously give hints of what top stats are but will never tell who it is and if these stats are on single char (most likely not).

Instead of using top stats, an average or median of top 10 values can be used (median of top 10 is average of 5th and 6th value from the top). In that case the formula shall be modified so the multiplier never falls below 100%.
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Re: Another take on catchup

Postby loskierek » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:02 pm

inb4 alts with just 1 stat for bonus, big bois pumping agi food into single alt so their hunger stays low longer no thanks -1000000
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Re: Another take on catchup

Postby Sevenless » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:11 pm

This seems like the obvious take, but I'm unfortunately in agreement that it still encourages titan building. Titan building is big boy faction only, and it robs players who are feeding that titan of satisfaction of building their own characters because everything (or most things) are going into feeding the titan.

I dunno, if we're going to accept titan building as a consequence I prefer my idea

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=64269

but I was convinced that encouraging titan building was enough of a negative that it shot the idea down at the time. Even if pure stat characters can't impact it, it's still a flaw that a huge chunk of resources would be ideally earmarked for a single character that never leaves safety.
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Re: Another take on catchup

Postby pppp » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:36 pm

How does it encourage titan building ? The bonus is applied to everyone, not only to the big char owner.
What would be the point of building a titan in this context if it does not benefit the owner (at least not more than anyone else including both owner's enemies and a random newb on the other end of the map)?
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Re: Another take on catchup

Postby loskierek » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:42 pm

exactly it applies to everyone so there is incentive to push a single stat on alt for buff which apllies to titans as well, they would still be far ahead because of superior quality and they would also benefit from the catchup mechanic as long as they maintain an alt for a single stat
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Re: Another take on catchup

Postby pppp » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:42 pm

What if other groups also have similar quality ?
The buff is designed to weaken when approaching reference stats. For it to be effective that single alt must be alt least some 20% higher than those alts being built so the bonus is meaningful. As I have written, the reference point does not have to be the top char, it could be 5th, 10th or whatever. In that case the effort to build a number of single stat alts will be significant. Not sure if worth it. Effectively the weaker of top factions would define the reference point. The reference point can be also a percentage of top stats. It is easy to tweak to make it not viable for big factions and still useful for newbs to quicker rise above "10" stats.

Building an alt is always splitting the available time. Building an alt in order to build alts is a lot of effort. Doubt it will be profitable. Then if these big boys are going to buy materials and effort for building alts, they will by the same sell something and help to catch up.

Also, under that logic no catch up mechanics is ever possible, because anything that would benefit new player will at least equally benefit alts.
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