Cairn Abuse

[Ants]

I think the cairn system is desperately broken and here's why.

The following image is an example of a typical cairn protection setup. There's a palisade, a landclaim and a hearthfire inside the palisade which you can't see.



The landclaim is to make it harder for the opponent to build a palisade around the main palisade. It also prevents the pali from decaying.

The hearthfire is so the cairn's owners can monitor for wrecking balls. A naked alt is enough to take one down, even if the opponent has a warrior parked nearby. If one naked alt isn't enough, they'll send out several so that while the warrior is busy knocking one out the others will take care of the WB. Keep in mind that having a warrior sitting by the ball all day is hard enough to begin with-- who wants to waste their entire day for this when their efforts could be foiled by a bunch of naked alts?

The main palisade will take 24 hours to bash with a wrecking ball. That wouldn't be a big problem if multiple cairns weren't protected like this and if cairns weren't so easy to replace.

Thoughts?

[stya]

Yes thoughts, you tried the same to destroy our cairns as a shortcut and failed because we checked those cairns, now you are crying over the forums.

[Granger]

Yes thoughts, you tried the same to destroy our cairns as a shortcut and failed because we checked those cairns, now you are crying over the forums.

I would count this as an argument in favour of the OP: the mechanics in play are broken.

[Ants]

Yes thoughts, you tried the same to destroy our cairns as a shortcut and failed because we checked those cairns, now you are crying over the forums.

You're taking this too personally, lol. The fact that we had to do the same thing because otherwise you'd have an advantage just goes to show that this needs to change. Players shouldn't be forced to do this.

[Granger]

Guys. It's completely irrelevant who started it, stop behaving like 3 year olds in a sandbox.

On further thinking: I'll HEL the derail, don't pick it up again in a C&I topic.

[Mario_Demorez]

Something needs to be done about all the exploits for realm expansion. Both sides of a realm dispute can exploit, doesn’t change the fact it needs to be fixed.

[neeco]

Someone went to more work than you, had more manpower and time, and they beat you. What do you expect? Git good.
Serious note though, if someone will go to the trouble to pali their cairns and maintain them like this and also check them every day, why is this a problem? Its a fuck ton of work. I wouldn't do this. Someone challenges your cairns, you just go kill them. This is probably the only way noob realms have a chance against the big dogs tbh, and even then, not really. Fine how it is.

KEEP MOOT AND AD HOMINEM OUT OF C&I, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

[neeco]

Someone went to more work than you, had more manpower and time, and they beat you. What do you expect? Git good.

KEEP MOOT AND AD HOMINEM OUT OF C&I, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Bruh.

I will point out that someone doing more work, and having more manpower are valid points to make when considering which side is successful. I'll rescind my "git good" comment, but does it not make sense that the larger group with more people and more time to do things would succeed? This is an expected thing with any mechanic, and life in general.
Shit. I would even say it's integral to what makes Haven, Haven. I am stronger than you, and therefore I will impose my will upon you.

[Ants]

Someone went to more work than you, had more manpower and time, and they beat you. What do you expect? Git good.
Serious note though, if someone will go to the trouble to pali their cairns and maintain them like this and also check them every day, why is this a problem? Its a fuck ton of work. I wouldn't do this. Someone challenges your cairns, you just go kill them. This is probably the only way noob realms have a chance against the big dogs tbh, and even then, not really. Fine how it is.

KEEP MOOT AND AD HOMINEM OUT OF C&I, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Someone went to more work than you, had more manpower and time, and they beat you. What do you expect? Git good.

KEEP MOOT AND AD HOMINEM OUT OF C&I, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Bruh.

I will point out that someone doing more work, and having more manpower are valid points to make when considering which side is successful. I'll rescind my "git good" comment, but does it not make sense that the larger group with more people and more time to do things would succeed? This is an expected thing with any mechanic, and life in general.
Shit. I would even say it's integral to what makes Haven, Haven. I am stronger than you, and therefore I will impose my will upon you.

You make good points. People who do this work very hard and maybe that should be worth something.

However, you don't need a lot of manpower to use these techniques and they are being used to hide from those who are legitimately strong. All that's needed are one or two guys with lots of alts and absurd amounts of patience. It doesn't seem fair that there's no good way of countering those palisades once they're dry.

[neeco]

You make good points. People who do this work very hard and maybe that should be worth something.

However, you don't need a lot of manpower to use these techniques and they are being used to hide from those who are legitimately strong. All that's needed are one or two guys with lots of alts and absurd amounts of patience. It doesn't seem fair that there's no good way of countering those palisades once they're dry.

I don't know your situation, but any moderately sized village should be able to easily out-do one or two guys using alts. The counter is to check more often than them. If it means so much to you, you devote more time to it. If 1-2 guys can out manpower a large village, they probably deserve it. And small villages probably shouldn't be trying to fight anyone with a realm tbh.

Edit: Also, maybe manpower is the wrong term. Maybe man-hours would be more appropriate? Don't know, but my point is that one side is going to put in a larger investment of time, effort and resources, and its not unreasonable for that side to win.