It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a life

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby Avu » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:16 pm

TurtleHermit wrote:
Avu wrote:What if he would go to work for 12 hours a day instead. Would he be allowed to be competitive then? I'm guessing no. Everything is fine move along citizens? Where is meteor where is siedge.


While your argument is somewhat valid, it's dumb. If He plays other games 12 hours, You don't go into "ifs" and "instead", because it's going into pretending to be retarded meme. It's plain simple there are people that can and cannot. Instead of ifing, try to find a solution.

There must be someway where stats aren't everything and there must be some skill involved, too.


This is not about fucking Ozzy, and the ifs don't fucking apply to him personally. They are about the general playerbase. Because if it's not clear enough for everyone in this game if the top faction doesn't have competition everyone else ends up getting rolled hard. It's just a matter of the top dogs setting their now bored sights on you.

The solution has been fucking suggested and agreed by everyone but AD and Jorb and Loftar because even when they make a poop they think wow what a nice poop we made how come nobody loves our poop, they must be haters and they can't see how our poop has an essential function in keeping no lifers busy.

As for stats not being everything and skill being involved. Look you can't have balance in this game when the devs refuse to sanely address the two top issues. Bots and alts. If you make stats matter then you make botted titans with botted quests botted food botted eating (to maximize satiation and threshold hunger eating). If you make stats matter less then you open up alts. Even if we had a perfectly balanced system the whole concept of open pvp where given similar levels of character development and skill the guys with more people online in a certain spot will win the conflict and that is even ignoring random ganks of people who were just trying to take a fish to a tree. When the result of a won conflict means pretty much that losers characters are out of the game you get haven. Balance that shit.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby Potjeh » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:20 pm

azrid wrote:Being top dog in hard core video games is not for people who work full time

Making a game that caters exclusively to NEETs doesn't sound like a very viable business model.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby julian12it » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:54 pm

I agree with what Ozzy is saying. We aren't kids that can play 15+ hrs a day anymore as we did in legacy. The questing system rewards players too much and it's currently only benefiting those who have no real life responsibilities. The hunger and satiation system needs to be reconstructed. Satiations are killer to anyone and everyone, no way around it. Hunger is there to slow you down forcing you to get more satiation per FEP. The removal of satiation will revert it back in fighting for salt nodes (which I don't oppose) or waiting for it to naturally go down. Removal of hunger, on the other hand, will slow the game down maybe less than hunger as you just have to wait for 8hrs (don't quote me on this) for your satiation to reset to feast again. The satiation percentages of food are ridiculous. Only being able to feast on two pieces of cheese due to them satiate 50% of cheese with a 40% chance or 40% with a 35% chance. I don't know if you guys sat down and analyzed each number or just threw numbers left and right and said fuck it. Anyways, I enjoy this game but I also hate it with my life. I've been playing this game ever since I was a kid and keep playing it due to the connections and friends I've made. Change something up, please.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby azrid » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:58 pm

Potjeh wrote:
azrid wrote:Being top dog in hard core video games is not for people who work full time

Making a game that caters exclusively to NEETs doesn't sound like a very viable business model.

Its a perfect game to keep the youth from degeneracy by making them spend all their time in stat grind.
And these people in their adult years are forced to venture into the real world and have a healthy life.
The value of such a system goes beyond monetary gains.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby boshaw » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:14 pm

azrid wrote:
Potjeh wrote:
azrid wrote:Being top dog in hard core video games is not for people who work full time

Making a game that caters exclusively to NEETs doesn't sound like a very viable business model.

Its a perfect game to keep the youth from degeneracy by making them spend all their time in stat grind.
And these people in their adult years are forced to venture into the real world and have a healthy life.
The value of such a system goes beyond monetary gains.


Minecraft, and others, already exists for those with autism.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby _Gunnar » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:16 pm

Ever since hafen came out with no movement combat and hardly any scope for combat skill, which made stats matter so much, this has been an issue for fighters I think.

Don't bandaid it by fiddling with quests or even removing them - my opinion is that the issue is unbounded stat growth, and there need to be sensible stat caps.


For example, using something like the system that Kaios posted back in W5 (I think? I could be wrong about the author/time it was posted), where your skills are capped by your equipment, similarly to how marksmanship & bows (used to? not sure any more) work.

e.g., your MC attack weight is capped by some coeff*WeaponQ
UA attacks could be capped by gloves/boots quality depending on move, I guess
Empty slots should have a low cap, to be determined..
Defensive weights could be capped by armour/shield.
strength, and agility should also be bounded by equipment. Or just the damage/cooldown formulae, probably

I have not worked out any details because (a) I'm lazy and (b) I am not an expert on these things at all, as I'm sure someone would love to point out.
But I think its obvious that the current progression system is fundamentally flawed at the core, and tweaking parts of it has never really fixed it. I like the way these dynamic caps tie back into industry. Haven is (or should be) a game first and foremost about civilization-building, not running around the forest punching other people.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby terechgracz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:04 pm

_Gunnar wrote:Don't bandaid it by fiddling with quests or even removing them - my opinion is that the issue is unbounded stat growth, and there need to be sensible stat caps.


I suggest just capping stats to 1000 sum of skills and 1000 sum of attributes so you have some specificity(or caps could be higher, bcs I currently have 560 so i think it won't be enough I've just came up with random number). You couldn't just have 1000 agi 1000 str 1000 con, you'd have to sacrifice str for extra agi etc. Ofc it makes alts more required but in most games like haven having different characters for crafting and fighting isn't a problem. So imagine, if someone wants to participate in combat he wont gain survival because it will sacrifice maximum ua he can gain, this way people will either get lots of ua and be pvp gods or create pve characters with survival to get some ql meat and stuff. This way we won't have just mindless the more stats you have the more chance of winning you have but there will be some meta, ability to have choice ie. sacrificing con and str for lots of agi.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby julian12it » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:57 pm

Are you guys reading the same thread? The issue being addressed relates to gaining stats and the imbalance relating to quests and the hunger system. A stat cap is the least of our worries at the moment since no one has reached 1000 base or 700 base (maybe someone). Item gilds and boost would be the increasing factor in making someone stronger or better than another so the person who grinds still comes out on top.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby terechgracz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:01 pm

julian12it wrote:Are you guys reading the same thread? The issue being addressed relates to gaining stats and the imbalance relating to quests and the hunger system. A stat cap is the least of our worries at the moment since no one has reached 1000 base or 700 base (maybe someone). Item gilds and boost would be the increasing factor in making someone stronger or better than another so the person who grinds still comes out on top.


Like it should be but with stat caps we finally will have some endgame.
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Re: It's impossible to compete in this game if you have a li

Postby Kaios » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:52 am

_Gunnar wrote:For example, using something like the system that Kaios posted back in W5 (I think? I could be wrong about the author/time it was posted), where your skills are capped by your equipment, similarly to how marksmanship & bows (used to? not sure any more) work.


Originally it was Potjeh's suggestion but I did try to plug it for a little while, I still don't think it's a bad idea though. Onep also made a similar suggestion awhile back in which combat stats would be capped but equipment would play a larger role in being able to increase your stats beyond the level cap. I personally wouldn't mind either one but I do think stat grinders would much prefer a system where they could continue to raise their combat stats even though the overall effectiveness would be limited by equipment.
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