Thoughts on complaints about quests

[Balanced]

For starters, I spend the majority of my haven game play questing. I guess you can refer to me as a 'quester'. I am also a hermit and I think questing helps me with getting the stats I progress in the game.

I don't understand the complaints about questing, as the basic formula for every game is:
the more work you put in -> the more rewards you get out.

For example, hermits don't complain when they don't get prized resources like for example; meteorites. We don't complain because we did not put in the work to achieve the competitive stats nor did we try to group together to compete for such resources. Therefore, we have to buy metal wares off big factions, who did put in the hard work to acquire that resource (being the meteorite).

So if you are not prepared to put in hard work into a game, whilst others are prepared to do so, the reality is that you will end up below them. You cannot stay competitive.

Players can either:
a) quit the game
b) play the game knowing there's someone with better stats that you

I believe around 99% of the haven population plays around option (b).

Jorb can either:
a) Nerf questing (there will never be a balance between viable and useless, if its useless the game mechanic is unused, and if its still viable everyone will just keep complaining)
b) Completely change questing mechanics (refer to a)
b) Stick to the formula: the more work you put in -> the more rewards you get out.

[Kaios]

Dude... a majority of the players don't get a chance at meteorite so idk what you're talking about. Questing isn't difficult it just takes time, the complaints around questing are more in relation to the random nature of good rewards and bad rewards and their tendency not to correlate properly with the difficulty of a quest.

Many players put a lot of time and effort in to the game in many different areas before they even consider something like questing.

[Ants]

The problem is that the game has many "professions" but the questing system seems to be forcing people to go clap at trees in order to remain competitive. People should be able to level their stats no matter their playstyle. Someone who works hard at mining will have lower stats than someone who spends all day questing and that's not really fair, I think.

I'll repeat what I said in other threads: I think the fastest, easiest way to make people happier with questing would be to remove lp and hunger rewards.

[Balanced]

Dude... a majority of the players don't get a chance at meteorite so idk what you're talking about. Questing isn't difficult it just takes time, the complaints around questing are more in relation to the random nature of good rewards and bad rewards and their tendency not to correlate properly with the difficulty of a quest.

Many players put a lot of time and effort in to the game in many different areas before they even consider something like questing.

The meteorite example was to illustrate that 'you get out what you put in', smaller villages/hermits do not complain about large factions acquiring resources as the large factions has put MORE work in. I do not see why the same principle shouldn't apply to questing.

This post was not about the random nature of rewards. The random nature is something I agree with and could be fixed easily. This post was more in response to: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=65287

[Balanced]

The problem is that the game has many "professions" but the questing system seems to be forcing people to go clap at trees in order to remain competitive.

This is not a balancing issue, this seems to be about quests not being fun. Jorb can make quests fun with some innovative ideas but this topic relates to balancing.

People should be able to level their stats no matter their playstyle. Someone who works hard at mining will have lower stats than someone who spends all day questing and that's not really fair, I think.

I agree with this, however i also think that this specific example 'balances out'; miners will have access to ore and have lower stats, questers will have access to higher stats but no ore.

[Kaios]

The meteorite example was to illustrate that 'you get out what you put in', smaller villages/hermits do not complain about large factions acquiring resources as the large factions has put MORE work in. I do not see why the same principle shouldn't apply to questing.

This post was not about the random nature of rewards. The random nature is something I agree with and could be fixed easily. This post was more in response to: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=65287

Oh fair enough well I do mostly agree with you in that regard but it probably would have helped his case a bit more in that thread if he actually provided some context as to what sort of stats the players he is referring to have.

I personally don't know what top players stats might look like at the moment, Ozzy is someone who should actually know more about that stuff so I don't know why he did not provide any examples because his argument might have seemed more reasonable depending on things like how high the players questing often really have gotten their stats by utilizing the hunger reduction or having the extra experience available to half the study time on certain curios as well as for raw hide in combat. I could make an educated guess but I honestly believe my guess would only reveal more about my own noobie stats than anything else.

Questing certainly helps everyone progress a bit faster than if it didn't have those rewards to go with it but from my perspective it is not so different from when hunting all animals gave LP or when performing even the most mundane actions gave LP, there will always be someone who has more time or resources to take advantage of those qualities. However, that has been a constant aspect of this game since I started playing it so I am uncertain if it is intended.

[Balanced]

The meteorite example was to illustrate that 'you get out what you put in', smaller villages/hermits do not complain about large factions acquiring resources as the large factions has put MORE work in. I do not see why the same principle shouldn't apply to questing.

This post was not about the random nature of rewards. The random nature is something I agree with and could be fixed easily. This post was more in response to: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=65287

Oh fair enough well I do mostly agree with you in that regard but it probably would have helped his case a bit more in that thread if he actually provided some context as to what sort of stats the players he is referring to have.

I personally don't know what top players stats might look like at the moment, Ozzy is someone who should actually know more about that stuff so I don't know why he did not provide any examples because his argument might have seemed more reasonable depending on things like how high the players questing often really have gotten their stats by utilizing the hunger reduction or having the extra experience available to half the study time on certain curios as well as for raw hide in combat. I could make an educated guess but I honestly believe my guess would only reveal more about my own noobie stats than anything else.

Questing certainly helps everyone progress a bit faster than if it didn't have those rewards to go with it but from my perspective it is not so different from when hunting all animals gave LP or when performing even the most mundane actions gave LP, there will always be someone who has more time or resources to take advantage of those qualities. However, that has been a constant aspect of this game since I started playing it so I am uncertain if it is intended.

I also saw Ozzy’s idea to remove hunger from the game and reduce food FEPs. I quite like this idea. This would reduce OPness of questing but still viable due to EXP and LP gains.

[nosfirebird]

there has to be a balance between people with a life / nolifers just remove the hunger/lp rewards and leave everything else would fix it all while leaving questing still intact(exp/gilding/quality increase) the game should not force people to clap at trees if they dont want to since this isnt a questing/exploration game its a crafting pvp permadeath game.
doing it that way leaves quests for questers and makes it so that people who dont wanna waste their time clapping at trees arnt forced to!

[Balanced]

this isnt a questing/exploration game its a crafting pvp permadeath game.

Isnt 'pvp' and 'quality increase from tree quests' completely contradictory? If this game was a 'pvp' game, tree quests should just increase the Q of items in your inventory.
There is no 'one definition' for haven, some people enjoy the exploration aspect whilst others enjoy the competitiveness of pvp.

It could be possible to remove hunger and LP from quests completely, but the chances of getting 'quality increase' as a reward would have to be around 10% for the mechanic to actually benefit the quester more than it benefits others.

[nosfirebird]

this isnt a questing/exploration game its a crafting pvp permadeath game.

Isnt 'pvp' and 'quality increase from tree quests' completely contradictory? If this game was a 'pvp' game, tree quests should just increase the Q of items in your inventory.
There is no 'one definition' for haven, some people enjoy the exploration aspect whilst others enjoy the competitiveness of pvp.

It could be possible to remove hunger and LP from quests completely, but the chances of getting 'quality increase' as a reward would have to be around 10% for the mechanic to actually benefit the quester more than it benefits others.

the majority of quest rewards only benefit the quester exp/gildings area quality benefits them + few people that live in close proximity. its a pvp permadeath game that has questing in it if you want to quest as it stands right now you are forced to quest 24/7 to stay competitive but this is literally just going around in a circle without devs actually weighing in so its pointless to keep doing these topics