Rage Toggle

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Rage Toggle

Postby Kaios » Wed May 08, 2019 3:44 am

I know, I know, the title looks bad at first but it's not a suggestion to remove pvp so chill out!

Everyone can buy Rage and choose to toggle it on or off, toggling Rage on activates a cooldown of one week (could be more, could be less) before it can be toggled off again. Killing a player while Rage is toggled on extends the time of the cooldown to turn it off again based on the overall value of the character killed. Siege machinery (other than wrecking ball) can't be used while Rage is toggled off. Characters with summonable scents out always have Rage activated until their scents expire, those with Theft scents out but no Rage could be killed but would still not be able to aggro without having bought the Rage skill too or Theft could simply be locked behind Rage like Vandalism.

Pros
  • Any players that did not want to buy Rage but wanted to unlock the skills behind it can now safely do so.
  • Removes the scenario of "my non-Rage friend got attacked and I couldn't help them because I don't have Rage either."
  • Provides the opportunity to participate in riskier PvE content with your friends while maintaining the ability to attack another player when the time comes.
  • Allows for each player to make the choice when they feel that risk is necessary or outweighed by the reward.
  • Increases the motivation for all players to participate in PvP content while also improving the chances of player retention.
  • Reduces the incentive to create a rage character and non-rage character.

Cons
  • Any players that did not want to buy Rage but wanted to unlock the skills behind it can now safely do so (yes I put this in pros too but I realize some will look at this as a con).
  • Someone that killed you or a friend/ally might not be kill-able when you find them a week later, this could certainly annoy some players.
  • Most players would likely utilize this mechanic by only activating Rage when they intend to actually kill someone, the downside for the aggressor being that if they lose the fight the permanent choice of buying Rage for them to be finished off instead becomes a temporary activation.
  • Could lead to players doing things like finishing someone off with an alt to reduce their own time to deactivate Rage.

The reason I suggest this is that while I realize it may not be the best solution regarding the issue of Rage versus Non-Rage players, wanting to take part in risky PvE content, deaths without Rage, and players in larger fights not having Rage at all; it might be a decent compromise until something better can be figured out.

The devs have to focus on two things with respect to this issue and that is enticing players in to PvP but also retaining the players that would not have otherwise been playing without the removal of "real permadeath" in the first place and so in this regard I think my suggestion does address some of this. Overall though I don't think this would change much in comparison to how the mechanic works now, some players might still die either way, those who like to roam around and PvP randomly will probably have it on all the time anyways, and nothing really changes for the players who don't care for PvP except now they can open up more skills to help defend themselves and at least have that option to attack when they need it but still maintain their style of play. The purpose, I hope, is to allow players greater opportunity to be involved in all types of content the game has to offer.

Also you could kill thieves which means players that loot in combat but don't have Rage would be killable and I don't really mind that because looting in the middle of combat is dumb anyways. Perhaps there could be some incentive to having Rage activated as well, like players giving some LP on death which would also discourage the use of an alt character for finishing blows.

If it is the intention of the devs to increase player retention by decreasing the chance of death then it only seems fair to me that the mechanics work the same way for everyone.
User avatar
Kaios
 
Posts: 9176
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby loleznub » Wed May 08, 2019 4:22 am

Kaios wrote:
Everyone can buy Rage.


/thread...

This proposal really doesn't do anything except make people go from fighting with B12's and Swords, to pool noodles. If you want the benefits of rage, purchase the skill. If you don't want the consequences of the skill, don't buy it. It's that simple, no need to overcomplicate the system with exploitable options and people trying to "game the system".

Let's not make the game more carebear, please.
loleznub
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:26 am

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby Kaios » Wed May 08, 2019 4:54 am

Darn I thought I was being pretty reasonable on this one but that was a disappointing first reply.
User avatar
Kaios
 
Posts: 9176
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby jordancoles » Wed May 08, 2019 5:01 am

The biggest gripe I have with the rage skill is that the maneuvers and moves it unlocks are core moves for pvp.
If you weren't interested in fighting for loot/raiding but instead just enjoy sparring then you must still buy rage to get access to the full move set
Duhhrail wrote:No matter how fast you think you can beat your meat, Jordancoles lies in the shadows and waits to attack his defenseless prey. (tl;dr) Don't afk and jack off. :lol:

Check out my pro-tips thread
Image Image Image
User avatar
jordancoles
 
Posts: 14076
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby bmjclark » Wed May 08, 2019 5:33 am

Honestly, I'd much prefer this to what we have. It's pretty shitty that u can buy rage for whatever reason and be stuck with that decision forever. And yes, lock theft behind rage and make it so you can die if you steal shit with it. 100%

Ultimately though, i'd just rather either everyone dies or no one does. This inbetween shit causes so gimmicky shit, especially with the nerfed b12 grievious damage.
Cajoes wrote:I was the murder victim your guy aggro'd. And slew. Entirely unprovoked. Rather handily at that. Which prompted the retaliatory party. That you also handily slew.
User avatar
bmjclark
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:40 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby Hasta » Wed May 08, 2019 6:20 am

So, we got to the "bargaining" phase? ;)

As much as it pains me to say so, I must agree with the 1st comment. I'd rather see non-rage characters unkillable. As it is now, Rage is like a church wedding in a religious society. Once you commit, you stand by your decision. No matter how many pros and cons, whatever good they are, Kaios wrote - this thread somehow still feels like an attempt to wiggle in a divorce mechanic.
User avatar
Hasta
 
Posts: 1937
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:27 pm

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 am

idk if it's worth dev time to polish a poop, but I assume a total rework is out of the question. I bought rage on my crafter to attack a dude (((who didn't have rage))) who was stealing from my knarr, so from my perspective it would be a good change x:


A side note, when I bought rage it was with the knowledge if I got KOed on my crafter there was a greater than zero chance it would be killed, something I wouldn't have done had I known it would later be impossible to die to PVP on non-rage characters. It seems MAYBE a bit unfair to change the system and not give people a way to go back.
"We specialize in permadeath and forum drama." -man who removed death and deletes every drama thread
http://www.seatribe.se/
User avatar
SnuggleSnail
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:04 pm

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby Granger » Wed May 08, 2019 7:18 am

SnuggleSnail wrote:A side note, when I bought rage it was with the knowledge if I got KOed on my crafter there was a greater than zero chance it would be killed, something I wouldn't have done had I known it would later be impossible to die to PVP on non-rage characters. It seems MAYBE a bit unfair to change the system and not give people a way to go back.

It should be no big problem to remove rage (and all behind it) for a full refund from all characters, should a change be made to how it works.
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
User avatar
Granger
 
Posts: 9254
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby Pan_w_okularach » Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 am

I think if you've killed somebody on your rage character you shouldn't be allowed to go back to non-rage
Memories of pain
User avatar
Pan_w_okularach
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:57 am

Re: Rage Toggle

Postby Avu » Wed May 08, 2019 9:32 am

Granger wrote:
SnuggleSnail wrote:A side note, when I bought rage it was with the knowledge if I got KOed on my crafter there was a greater than zero chance it would be killed, something I wouldn't have done had I known it would later be impossible to die to PVP on non-rage characters. It seems MAYBE a bit unfair to change the system and not give people a way to go back.

It should be no big problem to remove rage (and all behind it) for a full refund from all characters, should a change be made to how it works.


For normal devs.
"Since all men count themselves righteous, and since
no righteous man raises his hand against the innocent,
a man need only strike another to make him evil."
User avatar
Avu
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:00 pm

Next

Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Claude [Bot] and 2 guests