Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

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Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby Zentetsuken » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:24 pm

Okay so combat debate is back on the table, people are comparing legacy combat to current combat, some people love it, some hate it. It's an ongoing debate and I think the main consensus is that people want combat to be less dull, less easy, more skill involved, more strategic.

I am not saying my idea will solve all of these, but it will turn the idea of strategic combat on its head and make the group dynamic of combat change dramatically.

Imagine a class system where you could buy your way from classless to ranger, each step costing a base amount of LP and EXP, and each step having a cooldown like a slider. Instead of the idea of these being a 1-time credo purchase that permanently change your character in some given way, you could also FORGET the purchases, on the same cooldown, and re-buy your way to another class.

Please keep in mind this drawing is terrible and rushed and meant to only be an example

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Now imagine there was like a 1 day cooldown on buying a node, and that at any given time you could only have 1 "class" selected, and this selection also has a cooldown.
Each class would have both positives and negatives that would make it have strengths and weaknesses in battle. Perhaps combat maneuvers, defenses and attacks that are unique to each class, and maybe even other worldly bonuses.

So, as an example, you spend your initial first purchase to become an Augur, you buy the node for X amount of LP or EXP or whatever they may cost. Now you are an Augur and you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can level up from there. Maybe it's 1 day, maybe it's multiple?

Augur might have a new attack move, maybe some worldly benefit too, from something like a flat rate speed boost to something as trivial as not being agrod by snakes anymore?

After a while, you buy your next node, but this node doesn't unlock your new class yet, it's just a down payment, you wait your cooldown, now your next node purchase actually unlocks a class. You can stay Augur or select Bard. If you select Bard you give up all your Augury moves and bonuses and become a Bard and go on cooldown.

The idea here would be to make it so battle is unpredictable. Maybe if you get in to battle with Trollex over first meteor falling and see he is full berserk, and his boys have their respective classes, you cannot be sure that they will remain in these classes or have made enough lp or exp to switch for the next one. Maybe some classes have attacks and defenses, speeds, cooldowns and other things that could make them more effective or less effective in battle. Ultimately the idea would be that there would be potentially MANY "best" "top" "meta" type builds.

It's sort of like a fill-in-the-blanks idea because I think each class could be made useful, like maybe 2 bards could effectively take on a berserk with enough strategy, or a very good duo of Haruspex and Ranger could clear a dungeon with perfect teamwork?

Also archruids being only class able to tame wolves, you know that sounds fucking cool man shut up.
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Re: Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby Ozzy123 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:38 pm

You should try to fight something else except from a fox from your boat before talking about combat and pvp
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Re: Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby MagicManICT » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:02 pm

I think the whole point of Haven is to avoid such "classes" as this. Good concept, wrong game. The big downside to something like this is getting balance and equality. It'll take more than a 2, even 5, man dev team.
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Re: Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby Zentetsuken » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:02 pm

Ozzy123 wrote:You should try to fight something else except from a fox from your boat before talking about combat and pvp


damn ozzy, that's cold :lol:

I have a whole bunch more ideas to offer before I run away to albion
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Re: Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby Zentetsuken » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:06 pm

MagicManICT wrote:I think the whole point of Haven is to avoid such "classes" as this. Good concept, wrong game. The big downside to something like this is getting balance and equality. It'll take more than a 2, even 5, man dev team.


doesn't have to be traditional classes then, the idea is super rough, I mean we can remove the names at the ends of the sliders and just make it so there are bonuses and penalties at each end. I don't think it would take a 5 man dev team to think of a good multi-ended cat and mouse type of system where there are multiple good builds to go for that all have their own benefits, I have seen tons of people suggesting scheduled valhalla events with devs and fighters, and lots of other ways for jorb and loftar to get a better grasp of the current system. Once this happens maybe some of the input coming from people, and some of their own brainstorming can some together and some new dimensions and dynamics can bloom from what we have now.
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Re: Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby azrid » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:13 am

Right now you are just suggesting a class system that locks you into a pre determined playstyle. Coming up with a balance for all the different options would be really hard if there are so many.
I would rather see it be equipment and combat move based as it feels more natural. Having more variety available will surely open up more playstyles.
Jorb and Loftar just need to lock into a basic combat system and start fleshing it out more.
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Re: Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby MagicManICT » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:07 am

Zentetsuken wrote:I don't think it would take a 5 man dev team to think of a good multi-ended cat and mouse type of system where there are multiple good builds to go for that all have their own benefits

I think one person can come up with a good system around this. You've gotten the basics down already. I'm saying it's going to take a moderate sized team to get the balances and kinks worked out where any one path isn't going to be OP over another path. This is kind of how some pretty large current games work, and they have had some pretty bad balance issues at the release of the game (and some still do).
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Re: Crazy Combat Idea - Class "Sliders"

Postby Kaios » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:49 pm

It's not a terrible suggestion, the game already tends to lean towards a class system due to credos. Fighters go for stuff like hunter, strider; Miners go for quarryman, miner, gem hunter, cave hermit; Farmers go for farmer, gardener, potter, etc. Of course there can be some slight variation between the routes taken but for the most part the credos you choose to go for dictate the skills and attributes you raise and the duties you perform.

So I don't think it is unreasonable for combat to be similar and seeing a suggestion a bit different from the norm is nice too. Obviously there would have to be careful adjustment in the advantages and disadvantages for each node or class but like you said those are only examples and I think it's a neat idea. I certainly agree and have stated before that combat does need some further variability between the viable builds/decks so I'm all for a system that could help improve that strategic aspect of it.
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