"Identify Soul"

[Archiplex]

Hafen's name system is probably one of my favorite subsystems, but I have always thought there should be some form or method to 'bypass' it, and to name someone across their various characters.

So, with hearth magic, maybe there's a way to do that.

A new hearth magic unlocked when taking Lawspeaking would be "Identify Soul"- costing a good sum of EXP. You can either target a skull, or a hearthling. The timer should take a minute for a hearthling, and should be interrupted if they move (and impossible if they have a mask).

When you identify a soul; you learn a player's 'soul'- that is, the account that harbors this character. Souls don't have names, but you can assign a nickname to them. You automatically know if a certain soul is occupying a character, as the name you gave the soul should float just above (or in the place of) the name of a character you see; even if you've never met that character before. For example, you kill your greatest enemy, John, and take his skull and identify it, naming it "Dumb idiot". John makes a new character, grinds up, and runs to attack your base; while you don't know the name of this character, you do know his soul- and thus see "Dumb idiot" above their head. If John logged into an alternative character still tied to this account, you would also see "Dumb idiot" above their head

Alternatives to this would be: Souls can only be seen when crazy high on opium/hemp/etc. Or, souls are instead tied to the IP address of the player at the time of identifying, rather than the account, to prevent alts from being all too useful (as a 'handshake' to try and fight spying.Yes I'm still salty. Workarounds probably exist around the latter, but not a big issue.

It also helps when keeping track of certain silly people, and would make the drama in the moot probably more appealing, as people would identify skulls of their enemies and hunt them down repeatedly.

[Zentetsuken]

It seems pretty OP tbh because only 1 person per group would need to have this skill. But it could fun if hearth magic was expanded with some expensive new mechanics? Maybe certain hearth magics should only unlock when you are crazy high on opium? Would be interesting to have to come to a big fight with a character that is high as fuck and perform some ritual, have to carry certain non-weapons or non-armours and use expensive hearth magic to obtain such information.

Basically it would have to be like a huge trade-off of risk and expense to obtain this sort of information.

[Granger]

IP based anythings are meaningless for technial reasons, at best.

I also see nice potential for griefing in case it would be possible to see/track the account of another player.

[Archiplex]

IP based anythings are meaningless for technial reasons, at best.

I also see nice potential for griefing in case it would be possible to see/track the account of another player.

Yeah, in a perfect world it'd be nice but anyone can just proxy up. At the least it'd mean that it would add another layer of effort to spying- and often a vpn will give you multiple IP's over a course of time, so you'd notice a hearthling having many different "souls" over time and they'd need to explain that. Unlike a ban, the intent is not to remove people, but to identify them- and being able to identify rapidly changing IP's is good information on it's own.

Is the potential for griefing any worse than what already exists? If you kill a hearthling you'll probably know where they live anyhow, and if you raid them- they'd be a fool to live in the same spot or nearby again, too. I don't think tracking hearthlings by their soul should be possible, just identification if you happen upon another of their characters (and naturally, would require killing someone, finding their skull, or 'handshaking' them first.)

It seems pretty OP tbh because only 1 person per group would need to have this skill. But it could fun if hearth magic was expanded with some expensive new mechanics? Maybe certain hearth magics should only unlock when you are crazy high on opium? Would be interesting to have to come to a big fight with a character that is high as fuck and perform some ritual, have to carry certain non-weapons or non-armours and use expensive hearth magic to obtain such information.

Basically it would have to be like a huge trade-off of risk and expense to obtain this sort of information.

I think multiple people would want it anyways, tbh. Not everyone in your group can make it to a fight, or to identify hearthlings as they come- and the identity of a soul should not be able to be "spoken" like id'ing certain hearthlings is. and Lawspeaking isn't exactly an expensive lategame game skill (hard for early players, but my point stands)

I totally agree about the high on opium thing, though. It'd be neat to see abilities that can only be used when high, and this was part of the reason I added that possible suggestion up above (My original was going to be specific 'glasses' that let you, but that's laaaaaaaame.)

[Granger]

being able to identify rapidly changing IP's is good information on it's own.

No, it isn't, not at all.
There are plenty of countries where fixed ipv4 based addresses for subscriber lines don't happen, some providers even terminate connections after 24h so you 'can't run servers'.
With ipv6 there come the privacy extensions and what might be left of your idea (from looking a technology standpoint regarding using IP adresses for anything)... is gone.

From a gameplay standpoint:
The ones who might be worth tracking would evade by using different accounts to fuck with you anyway.
Sorry, bad idea - simply because it can't be made to work and that alone is enough to not make it worth any effort.

Also regarding

Yeah, in a perfect world it'd be nice but anyone can just proxy up.

I wouldn't want to live in the dystopy you see as 'perfect'.
The book 1984 was a warning, not a manual - please stop fearing the unknown.

[Archiplex]

being able to identify rapidly changing IP's is good information on it's own.

No, it isn't, not at all.
There are plenty of countries where fixed ipv4 based addresses for subscriber lines don't happen, some providers even terminate connections after 24h so you 'can't run servers'.
With ipv6 there come the privacy extensions and what might be left of your idea (from looking a technology standpoint regarding using IP adresses for anything)... is gone.

And that's where personal explanation and speaking of those consistent ip changes happens. Like I mentioned, it doesn't always fit, and doesn't 'eliminate' spying, but provides a tool and clue in part of it.

simply because it can't be made to work and that alone is enough to not make it worth any effort.

This notion that if you can't perfectly erase or fix something, that the effort should not be expended at all is somewhat silly. Even aside the spying thing, it's not a terrible mechanic, and would still be something I'd like to see even if it ISN'T IP-based.

Also regarding

Yeah, in a perfect world it'd be nice but anyone can just proxy up.

I wouldn't want to live in the dystopy you see as 'perfect'.
The book 1984 was a warning, not a manual - please stop fearing the unknown.

Pretty large reach to equate totalitarianism to the ability to just, sometimes after a handshake or murder, know who 'someone' is.
I'd be more willing to trust unknowns had I not had two worlds ruined by that trust, though . I feel like people who've not felt a snake's bite should not be telling others that the venom does not hurt at all. A system that at least allows me to interact with people with some extra padding to figure out who they are would only increase interactions between players, anyhow- which god knows is something this game needs.

[Granger]

I'd be more willing to trust unknowns had I not had two worlds ruined by that trust, though . I feel like people who've not felt a snake's bite should not be telling others that the venom does not hurt at all.

1. Sorry for your losses.
2. I feel that you shoudn't treat your speculation (about what had or hadn't happen to others in the game) as facts to use in an argument - as you did in the fallacy of implying that I didn't have made these experiences of yours, thus I have no clue.
3. Pro-tip: Forming a village with others wihout having additional contact channels is a path to a multitude of desasters.

A system that at least allows me to interact with people with some extra padding to figure out who they are would only increase interactions between players, anyhow- which god knows is something this game needs.

It already exists, it's called internet.
How old you might be, there certenly exists some age-compatible protocols/applications/services/apps that you can use to create an out-of-game contact channel to the one(s) you meet in the game.

[Archiplex]

I'd be more willing to trust unknowns had I not had two worlds ruined by that trust, though . I feel like people who've not felt a snake's bite should not be telling others that the venom does not hurt at all.

2. I feel that you shoudn't treat your speculation (about what had or hadn't happen to others in the game) as facts to use in an argument - as you did in the fallacy of implying that I didn't have made these experiences of yours, thus I have no clue.
3. Pro-tip: Forming a village with others wihout having additional contact channels is a path to a multitude of desasters.

I should point out that you, indeed, have done the same; both situations we had contact with them out of game as well, and both times they were fairly active in responding to us. Spying is not a matter of sitting a character in a village that lets people in freely; it's about falsifying who you are and acting the role- more limits on how that can be accomplished are only for the better.

A system that at least allows me to interact with people with some extra padding to figure out who they are would only increase interactions between players, anyhow- which god knows is something this game needs.

It already exists, it's called internet.
How old you might be, there certenly exists some age-compatible protocols/applications/services/apps that you can use to create an out-of-game contact channel to the one(s) you meet in the game.

Again, as above, it's not quite the same. It's not hard to falsify yourself on the internet, if that's what you expected- and if you're implying I should start asking for the facebook/vk pages of all people that enter my village, well... There is some amount of privacy to be respected. I'm not asking to know people's IP's, either- just know if the server is saying they are changing often.



All in all, though, this is one subset of the suggestion, and I'm not too interested (nor do i think it's productive) to keep arguing about the other ways spies work and how they can meddle into places. Lots of villages have been ruined by spies; it's not an interesting mechanism, and contributes nothing to the world other than allowing a well built village to be ruined from the inside-out- serves to reduce interaction and increase paranoia and, really, adds nothing to the game in the end. If i knew jorb/loft weren't so against divine meddling, I'd just outright suggest banning it- but instead, I think it's good to introduce neat mechanics that can also serve as some level of checking spies.

[Granger]

I'm not asking to know people's IP's, either- just know if the server is saying they are changing often.

And I, from my professional background with the technology that culminates in what people call 'the internet', informed you that this metric means absolutely nothing at all and is completely unable to provide any benefit in the problem domain (telling something tangible about the trustworthiness of the account the character infront of you belongs to) this topic is about.

... spies ...

I agree with you that spies can be 'unfun' for their victims. Though I guess as people having fun being spies would just use another account for such a character and from that would circumvent what the suggestion is aimed at.

A better solution would be a world where (base or character) death wouldn't be the final end of all hope to be meaningful in the current world.
So while spies could still do their dirty work (though these days a well laid out base massively reduces their potential effectiveness) the collected tears would be less plentiful.

I still think the ability to have multiple independant characters on one account is a good one, as long as there are multiple characters on an account (the argument could be, and has been, made that there should only be one).
YMMV.

[MagicManICT]

Not to discount what's been said here, but the whole sidetrack into IP addresses is a bunch of unnecessary baggage. It's pointless and meaningless as the whole concept just needs the server to show such information to other players. Giving out anything else is a risk to the people playing the game, and is one of the benefits of playing a server-hosted game vs a peer-to-peer hosted game.

I'm not really "for" or "against" such a thing. It's done in other games. People "friend" and "guild" the account, not the character, in more than a few. Showing the account name is optional in some, mandatory in others, but personal registration information (email, IP) are never shown.