Food & Level Scaling Rework

[Agrik]

A question. What will happen with drinks now giving satiations against themselves and thus limiting eternal consumption?

Look at the playerbase right now. Compare it to past worlds.

There are many reasons for people to dislike things.

Look at all of the complaining and whining about how unfun character progression this world is.

By character progression you mean blowing up virtual numbers? It surely isn't fun itself and can't be. Even comparing these virtual numbers is not fun in total because when somebody wins the comparison somebody else loses.

Removing satiations will change details of balance in food and drinks usage probably, and will affect the speed of blowing up stats. I don't see how it will affect the gameplay generally. That's my thoughts, as asked. Insult reported btw.

[Vigilance]

Insult reported btw.

First off, I am so sincerely sorry that calling you a dimwit hurt your feelings.

A question. What will happen with drinks now giving satiations against themselves and thus limiting eternal consumption?

Not sure I understand this point, but I'm fairly sure its benign to the point of "who cares."

Look at the playerbase right now. Compare it to past worlds.

There are many reasons for people to dislike things.

Yes, and from my own personal experiences and anecdotes the majority of people I played with got burnt the fuck out by how hard the game kicked back at you for everything you chose to do. Every food you ate, every action you took, everything had a level of kickback. Eating sessions could be instantly ended in the early game by satiations rolling unluckily. I would really like to take a poll to see what has made most people quit playing, but I can personally say my entire village quit over how unfun it was to continue playing in the quality/number bloat race.

Look at all of the complaining and whining about how unfun character progression this world is.

By character progression you mean blowing up virtual numbers? It surely isn't fun itself and can't be. Even comparing these virtual numbers is not fun in total because when somebody wins the comparison somebody else loses.

No, it isn't fun itself, but you have to consider that blowing up virtual numbers also includes the initial few weeks of a character's life. And as for comparing them "not being fun" because someone has to lose, that's sort of the nature of any vaguely competitive game, which this game is, at its core, a competition. What a naive takeaway.

Removing satiations and leaving hunger will still allow some level of holding the gate of progression. Many things do. It's just another redundant and truly time consuming thing to balance for the developers, and frankly I'd prefer if jorb/loftar didn't have to manually re-do every single food item's satiation values every time they wanted to make a balance adjustment, and instead could spend their who-knows-how-many hours of dev time a week on something of bigger substance.

[thesourceofsadness]

Won't that make a ton of food items useless? People will only eat cheese... ?

This. Why would anyone use some other food if they can make top tier food?

Satiatios make people to focus not only on quality of food, but on it's variety too.

[azrid]

Fire up the piebots its time to distance ourselves from the normies in terms of stats.
Shouldn't matter though if the usefulness scaling is harsh enough. Don't forget to scale wounds and their healing methods as well.

Biggest negatives:
1. Bot required to cook and eat
2. Only eating 2 types of food

I doubt at this point it will make a huge difference in the active player numbers.
In my opinion the reason for that has always been a shallow endgame.

[Kostetus]

Havn't read the whole thread, so i might be missing an answer, but still - what r the goals of this change? to shorten the gap between starting & top players?
but wont it always be too large, thats why ppl r investin time in progress afterall. Or is the goal to deflate the value of this progress itself?
well the good thing here you r givin us something like simplifin food system while takin away something
thou all of this will depend on realisation.
PS you've forgot to mention scaling in guilding chance, it also using stat values in calculation.

[Fostik]

By the way, consider reworking drinks as pairings to food, i.e. you drinked some beer, next eaten sausage or meat will give you more fep

[Agrik]

I am so sincerely sorry that calling you a dimwit hurt your feelings

It hurt not my personal feelings but the spirit of discussion, I suppose. And it's not for me to decide.

by how hard the game kicked back at you for everything you chose to do. Every food you ate, every action you took, everything had a level of kickback. Eating sessions could be instantly ended in the early game by satiations rolling unluckily.

Limit to eating is just a part of the game world rules. Do they (or it's you?) call any gameplay obstacle a kickback? I don't see what it is back from, except from expectations maybe. Neither I see why the players being able to shove all the food they have will be specifically better for the game.

I would really like to take a poll to see what has made most people quit playing

It could be nice, but we won't see answers from most of those who has left, so the result would be extremely skewed. And one needs to differentiate players experience and game mechanics anyway. Players are not developers, they can't dictate how the game is to be done.

but you have to consider that blowing up virtual numbers also includes the initial few weeks of a character's life.

The underlying gameplay, if I got you right. That's exactly why I said there won't be much difference. The gameplay of obtaining food is not being improved, and the gameplay of managing food types only has some conditions altered.

And as for comparing them "not being fun" because someone has to lose, that's sort of the nature of any vaguely competitive game

Nature of good competitive game is based on some useful skill, that is, the competition in what. The reward distribution part is zero-sum, while the growth in skill is fun for both sides and the source of net positive outcome.

One may overlook this in a real competition when only the outcome matters, thus making any means useful, but it the game design you have to connect a skill-check and a reward manually.

Removing satiations and leaving hunger will still allow some level of holding the gate of progression.

The progression may be "faster" or "slower", with more gates or less, it's all only relative virtual numbers, not much "better" or "worse" it the sense of the game. It all depends on the devs' idea of what the game should be.

[Potjeh]

Why still insistence on a root based formula? x * stat / (stat + z) would be much better.

And I'd rather see hunger removed than satiations. Hunger sucks.

[pppp]

Fire up the piebots its time to distance ourselves from the normies in terms of stats.
Shouldn't matter though if the usefulness scaling is harsh enough. Don't forget to scale wounds and their healing methods as well.

Biggest negatives:
1. Bot required to cook and eat
2. Only eating 2 types of food

This.
4th root is not harsh enough in the context of infinite eating. Potjeh formula is harsh enough.

Why still insistence on a root based formula? x * stat / (stat + z) would be much better.

Because they do not want asymptotic cap. IMHO asymptotic cap is worth considering.

[Agrik]

I suppose exponential decay is better than any cap. Sorry, still can't put my thoughts together to make a topic.
Edited. Was thinking it is logarithmic, seems it isn't.