Food & Level Scaling Rework

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby killette2 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:14 am

sabinati wrote:sounds good to me as long as all the other shit like animals, weapons, armor, gilds, etc, etc, get balanced accordingly, e.g. gilds would need some significant boosts to stats to be effective after a certain point, maybe change them to percentage boosts instead of number boosts or something, otherwise even the best current stat gilds become worthless to mid-high level players

Good catch on gilds, didn't even think about that. The only downside is an opinion, but I think percent bonuses are ugly and should at least say what they will be for you personally without you having to put them on (which I'm sure a client would end up doing anyways).
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby neil6197 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:34 am

jorb wrote:Whaddayathinkabout...

  • The formula for calculating HP is presently 100*√(CON/10). Combat damage, demolition damage, Agility comparisons, and HP calculations all use a square root. We rework the scaling of combat damage, demolition damage, Agility comparisons, and HP, to use a 4th root, rather than a square root, i.e. your HP would be 100*∜(CON/10). By way of example, 5k con would give ~472 HP under the suggested paradigm, rather than ~2236 HP as presently. We heal everyone on first login under the new system.


its meaning
if i want to dismantle brickwall ,i need over 10000str to use wreckingball making dmg?
or structure soak will change with this new system?
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby Archiplex » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:37 am

jorb wrote:Whaddayathinkabout...

  • We remove satiations.
  • Drinks are changed to buff particular food categories, rather than heal satiations.
  • The formula for calculating HP is presently 100*√(CON/10). Combat damage, demolition damage, Agility comparisons, and HP calculations all use a square root. We rework the scaling of combat damage, demolition damage, Agility comparisons, and HP, to use a 4th root, rather than a square root, i.e. your HP would be 100*∜(CON/10). By way of example, 5k con would give ~472 HP under the suggested paradigm, rather than ~2236 HP as presently. We heal everyone on first login under the new system.
  • We do something similar for additional HP from dungeons.

TLDR: You would be much freer to level up, the food system would be less of a pain -- you wouldn't be punished for eating apart from hunger, and personal consumption rate would probably cease being your bottleneck -- while the yield curve from eating would be significantly flatter to compensate.



Yes, yes, yes.

Putting everyone in the world on a closer level eliminates the crippling loss from death; however I don't think it fixes fundamental issues completely- it does a pretty good job of setting the stage for future changes.

I would also suggest formalizing the stats foods give based off their relative difficulty to craft, as removing satiations would return us to the days of eating the same types of foods over and over; perhaps add some sort of golden carrot system- where eating certain foods makes other types of food give a small bonus to their FEPS; basically, "reverse" satiations.
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby Dakkan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:21 am

Archiplex wrote:...where eating certain foods makes other types of food give a small bonus to their FEPS; basically, "reverse" satiations.


That's a fun idea!
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby Agrik » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:04 am

jorb wrote:Whaddayathinkabout...
1. It won't improve anything significantly in the overall course of the game.
2. I don't understand the goal of these changes.
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby Vigilance » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:02 am

not sure how much I like the HP changes for fear of such drastic changes being implemented poorly (it's happened before in this game ;) ) but otherwise everything here looks like a Good Idea. Drinks being buffs instead of mandatory sounds nice.

I don't think nerfing heart containers is a very fun idea, but I've also no idea of the actual statistics of how much health people gain off of these. I think that if you nerfed HP formula and kept heart containers as-is that could be neat, or if you nerfed heart containers and kept the formula as is? Dunno. Not something I'm experienced enough to toss my opinion out towards.

Agrik wrote:
jorb wrote:Whaddayathinkabout...
1. It won't improve anything significantly in the overall course of the game.
2. I don't understand the goal of these changes.

How fucking out of touch are you?

Look at the playerbase right now. Compare it to past worlds. Look at all of the complaining and whining about how unfun character progression this world is.

You dimwit.
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby DDDsDD999 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:30 am

One concern I have is health regen/wounds. In fights you could realistically regen a couple hundred points if you maintain your hunger level. If damage gets scaled down, health regen would become even more important, maybe titans would just be immortal if they play it safe in fights, and have alts run them constant energy food, because they mitigate enough damage to just regen it and last forever.

One of the big problems with scaling is armor quality, without decent quality B12 and strength currently you do garbage damage to a decently set up character's armor. With this damage scaling down the way proposed, I expect even the best hit a weak character could land would be easily regen'd.

This also buffs the rageless strats even more. The wounds from getting KO'd can be healed even faster, allowing them to deploy multiple times, most likely in a siege defense.

Weren't you guys planning on reworking combat? Why not delay this and package it with the reworked combat, so the systems work well together?
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby MagicManICT » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:33 am

Oddity wrote:That seems like a bit much, and I agree with the poster who said that most players will have no reason to even try raising con. Maybe fix stat inflation so people don't end up with 10,000 attributes so easily instead (no quick ideas about that though)

I can think of some immediately, one being removing the hunger bonuses (you can at best get the base value for food, and can eat yourself into half values or worse). Cap the scaling on workstation spiraling (clay, iron namely) better so we don't end up at q500+ by six months into a world. Maybe that should be the value for 2-3 years in?
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby vatas » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:24 am

sabinati wrote:sounds good to me as long as all the other shit like animals, weapons, armor, gilds, etc, etc, get balanced accordingly, e.g. gilds would need some significant boosts to stats to be effective after a certain point, maybe change them to percentage boosts instead of number boosts or something, otherwise even the best current stat gilds become worthless to mid-high level players

Gildings could have something like +10/1% AGI which would mean it will give you either 10 flat Agility or 1% of your base agility, whichever is higher.

I haven't been playing the game on high enough level to say about the food and stats changes suggested in OP but sounds like something you should at least try out.
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Re: Food & Level Scaling Rework

Postby delsus » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:42 am

Won't that make a ton of food items useless? People will only eat cheese... ?
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