Stat Crunch Idea

[The_Lich_King]

So i haven't played almost at all during w11 do to real life being busy and i am just coming back, but i have been reading about w11 and it's current issues (which seem to mostly just be issues that were present in w10 and haven't been fixed yet) and i am wondering if it would help the game to do a huge stat crunch, but not the proposed one that Jorb proposed where 5k con would essentially amount to 500 HP. I am thinking make skills and attributes harder to obtain by nerfing EVERYTHING!!!!!! Every curio gets reduced hugely, such that if you found one that was 100 lp an hour, that would be massively impressive. Make LP scarce so that skills are hard to get and you can't just ascend insanely in the infinite stat grind. Reduce the amount of FEP's all food gives such that someone with 1000 str would be legendary and i know what you are saying "That doesn't fix anything, cause we would obviously just scale everything in proportion to it, and it would just be the same game with different proportions." and that's why i say, don't scale everything to the same scale. Don't nerf animals as much as you do stats such that they become really OP, still keep it hard to mine at lower levels, still keep alot of the stat restrictions. This would help because it would take so much longer to get to the endgame and it would make worlds last longer. The issue i see is everyone gets to the endgame in exactly 2 months and then it's infinite stat grind from there. So just nerf everybody but keep the world relatively the same so that it takes WAY longer to get to the endgame. Also i absolutely DO NOT, support this being implemented into the world right now. This would be something that would need to be implemented at the beginning of w12. I also would like to actually discuss this. If you think it's a shitty idea please point out that it's a shitty idea but by critiquing it, and possibly by giving your own solutions and answering other peoples solutions (unless you find it unsolveable) Let's try to have a debate and a discussion about how to increase the time to endgame and how to fix the infinite stat grind without turning this into a shit show.

[Vigilance]

this sounds like such a fundamentally bad idea that would just drag out the (possibly less than) two months of enjoyable gameplay to several months entirely arbitrarily. it's just shuffling around values and stats entirely needlessly in efforts to shake up the game to give the illusion of a fix until the status quo is reaffirmed. i dont see how purely changing numbers will do literally anything positive for the game whatsoever. i have NEVER understood the concept of "Well, we should just make everything sloooooooooower" as a solution to anything.

[The_Lich_King]

this sounds like such a fundamentally bad idea that would just drag out the (possibly less than) two months of enjoyable gameplay to several months entirely arbitrarily. it's just shuffling around values and stats entirely needlessly in efforts to shake up the game to give the illusion of a fix until the status quo is reaffirmed. i dont see how purely changing numbers will do literally anything positive for the game whatsoever. i have NEVER understood the concept of "Well, we should just make everything sloooooooooower" as a solution to anything.

Because it's not (in my opinion) that the content in the first 2 months isn't fun, actually most players have alot of fun in these 2 months which is why they have such a large player base, i have always thought the problem with the endgame is people get there to quickly, now obviously if we are extending the length of time it takes to get to the endgame we have to add more in the middle, but adding endgame content will never EVER fix the problem because people blow through all the content so quickly, and adding more will just be one more little thing people will blow through in a week. There is a lack of endgame content but i think the largest issue is everyone gets to the endgame content WAY to quickly.

Edit: i misread, thinking you said that the first 2 months weren't fun, you said they were but that they are possibly even less than 2 months which is already short, but if the first 2 months is fun i don't see the problem with trying to extend that contents lifespan, but i do admit that it could become tedious to even get to the endgame if they don't add more midgame content to keep it intreresting till you get there.

[Vigilance]

the thing is that if the beginning pacing of the game was dragged out any longer than it already is people would get bored sooner purely off of the fact that the sticks and stones to palisades tier takes a couple weeks and the fact that, for one instance, instead of taking a couple weeks to go down minehole layers it would, in your example of 1000 strength being "legendary," take several months at a certain point to descend. arbitrarily prolonging gameplay can make some elements seem to overstay their welcome. i've seen quite a few instances of otherwise very enjoyable things (mostly in MMO's) get repeated for so long that the novelty wears out and you're just suffering waiting to get to the next step.

the pacing is fine as-is, we just need meaningful content once the walls are set and the infrastructure is all built, and it can't be in the form of "oh, well, you can do some dungeons if you find them and your stats are unreasonably high." or "oh, well, if you have an abundance of these random materials or an excess of time you can do this weird credo or craft these weird items." bigger mobs don't solve anything.

it needs to just come from the core gameplay loop at the "end" being different from it is now-- which is realistically "Do the same thing you've been doing for months" (farming, treeplanting, mining, spiraling)

you havent known true suffering until you've mined thousands and thousands of cast iron bars worth of ore to watch it turn in to a small anvil quality upgrade, rinse and repeat.

[Dakkan]

you havent known true suffering until you've mined thousands and thousands of cast iron bars worth of ore to watch it turn in to a small anvil quality upgrade, rinse and repeat.

But mining is fun...

[The_Lich_King]

the thing is that if the beginning pacing of the game was dragged out any longer than it already is people would get bored sooner purely off of the fact that the sticks and stones to palisades tier takes a couple weeks and the fact that, for one instance, instead of taking a couple weeks to go down minehole layers it would, in your example of 1000 strength being "legendary," take several months at a certain point to descend. arbitrarily prolonging gameplay can make some elements seem to overstay their welcome. i've seen quite a few instances of otherwise very enjoyable things (mostly in MMO's) get repeated for so long that the novelty wears out and you're just suffering waiting to get to the next step.

the pacing is fine as-is, we just need meaningful content once the walls are set and the infrastructure is all built, and it can't be in the form of "oh, well, you can do some dungeons if you find them and your stats are unreasonably high." or "oh, well, if you have an abundance of these random materials or an excess of time you can do this weird credo or craft these weird items." bigger mobs don't solve anything.

it needs to just come from the core gameplay loop at the "end" being different from it is now-- which is realistically "Do the same thing you've been doing for months" (farming, treeplanting, mining, spiraling)

you havent known true suffering until you've mined thousands and thousands of cast iron bars worth of ore to watch it turn in to a small anvil quality upgrade, rinse and repeat.

I still think it's not just an issue with the endgame. The end loop is not something that can ever be fixed because no matter how much content you add, even if it is good content, people will burn through it and get to the end loop again. I honestly think that we need to make more in the middle to make getting to the end game not happen so quick, and i do agree that if we were to extend the lifespan of alot of the things people find fun, then maybe the fun things in the game, would become tedious. I still stand by that it needs to take ALOT longer to get to lower level mines, it needs to be alot harder to get the unreasonably high stats that allow you to roflstomp all the mobs in the world, it just needs to take longer to get to the insane levels that people get, but maybe we don't do it by stat crunching and extending the lifespan of all the content in the middle.

I have been wondering recently if we couldn't kill 2 birds with one stone and fix foraging and sorta fix some of the problems i have with people racing to the end, by bumping up the stat requirements of mining and bumping up the stat requirements of getting quality farming, both by alot and then flood the game with more forageables and more stuff to do in the stone age. It's always bugged me how short the stone age lasts in this game and i find the stone age to be really fun and enjoyable.... mostly cause i like foraging but still, maybe we could try to extend the life of the Stone Age alot, this would in turn slow down the stat boosting because it will take people longer to get sausage makers and good tables. If we simply raise the stat requirements it takes to start mining and farming AND add alot of early game content in order to keep it interesting till you get to that point, then once you got to mining and farming, you would get a good table and all the other things people use to stat boost and people could progress through it similarly to now where it's still fun, but it took them longer to get there so there was more playtime in between. As well as, if we did do this, early game foraging would last longer, so people would put way more points into exploration and survival, meaning when people got to farming, the farm stuff would be low Q and forageables would be higher Q, keeping foraging viable. To make this work i also feel like we need to greatly increase the quality of forageables as a whole.

but as you said, maybe even this won't fix it, as it does seem to be a problem that goes deeper than can just be fixed by adding some light content and playing with stats.

[vatas]

My assumption is that the change in how stats scale in higher numbers would be much better fix than this. You'd slow down the early game and catch-up of newer players.

[The_Lich_King]

My assumption is that the change in how stats scale in higher numbers would be much better fix than this. You'd slow down the early game and catch-up of newer players.

Everytime any content is added, the catch up becomes worse because it's that little bit extra that players will have to do in order to actually catch up. If we add anything to extend endgame, midgame or early game it will make catch up worse, that's the nature of catch up and i think we can all agree that we need more content in at least one of these places: Endgame, midgame or early game. So no matter what in order to fix the current problems in the game catch up has to get alot worse, and i am saying this as a person whom just came back and has no reasonable method of catching up in the slightest. In the end, unless we introduce stat caps again catch up will never be a thing because Players whom put in more time, will be further regardless of anything and that is not a problem there is a solution too, or at least not a good solution.

The biggest thing for me anyways, is that there should be more before the endless quality grind. Since we can never stop it, since players will always manage to eat up all the content in the game, why not just try to prolong the time it takes to get to the endless quality grind.

[boreial]

What is "End Game" in a simulation of life? IRL that pretty much is death.

[Lyrroth]

this prevent nothing and only allows a wider gap between casuals and hardcores