List of game breaking balance issues

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Ants » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:34 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:The crowd that cares about aesthetics for aesthetic's sake and the crowd that cares about wearing expensive shit to dab are very different. Most PVPers I know fit very firmly in the latter.

I'm not saying the only way to balance meteorites is to make their rewards purely cosmetic, but it self seems evident to me that locking something powerful behind being the most powerful faction in the game is not a recipe for longevity.

Plus, legacy had lots of fighting in spite of harsher death mechanics, and literally no reason to fight over anything, really. People will turn up to fights to, ya'know, murder nibbas and wave their pp

Making stuff with rose gold is a decent "look at how rich I am" dab. You're right that making something powerful so hard to access might be detrimental to the game though, particularly since being a powerful faction involves so much botting.

P.S: meteorites were purely cosmetic in world 10, and meteorites are purely cosmetic right now.

It is untrue that they are purely cosmetic right now. They can be traded for more tokens than gold because lots of sprucecaps want to get level nine mineholes. Also, nearly nobody shows up to meteorite "fights" now.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby MagicManICT » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:32 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:The crowd that cares about aesthetics for aesthetic's sake and the crowd that cares about wearing expensive shit to dab are very different. Most PVPers I know fit very firmly in the latter.

Maybe I'm just old school, but roaming and raiding was always about getting it down for the least cost, not trying to dab on your opponent.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Ardennesss » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:03 pm

Ants wrote:It is untrue that they are purely cosmetic right now. They can be traded for more tokens than gold because lots of sprucecaps want to get level nine mineholes.

Scamming people doesn't make something valuable, fyi.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby jorb » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:33 pm

Good, high effort post. Will try to look at those. Big thanks.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Ants » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:45 pm

Ardennesss wrote:
Ants wrote:It is untrue that they are purely cosmetic right now. They can be traded for more tokens than gold because lots of sprucecaps want to get level nine mineholes.

Scamming people doesn't make something valuable, fyi.

Things are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. :)

jorb wrote:Good, high effort post. Will try to look at those. Big thanks.

I suggest keeping a list of things that could be fixed if you don't have one yet.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Granger » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:40 am

SnuggleSnail wrote:Like, idk, maybe it's just me - but not having the ability to just kill somebody for calling me a faggot in realm chat every day, or stealing from my knarrs is genuinely game ruining. Why can't I gank A.D miners? They're literally making weapons/armor for my enemy, the thing they're doing COULD NOT be more hostile towards me, but the game counts them as innocent birds that SHOULD NOT die under any circumstances, immune to this mortal toil. It's not as though 1v1 ganking somebody who has no chance of winning is unlike actual PVP, considering 90% of it is the side with more numbers/stats chasing the side with less numbers/stats.

The problem is that when there is nothing stopping a character from running around slaughtering everyone else that moves... that is exactly what will happen (and did, each and every world so far) and leds to way too many unhappy for of the lulz of a few.

The open PvP + endless growth + permadeath combination does not make a fun game, at least not for longer than some very few months. Simply because there is a certain point at which the penalty for loss of a character gets too massive, possibly not for the ones running around with bot fed alts... but all the rest of normal humans. That's the reason I came up with the suggestion to toggle death using rage: there needs to be something that stops the slaughter of civilians to no longer 'game over' them, so the worlds population dosn't shrink down to the psychopaths that complain that they ran out of targets.

So one of the three ideas has to go, for the game to stay fun. And as you (as in the PvP interested) argued against limiting character growth and open PvP can't reasonably be removed from the game the thing that was left on the chopping block was permadeath (for the ones not interested in fighting).

Which, in part, seemed to have worked. But also failed in part as non-rage characters still got killed through various means (eg. knarr multi-hit) with the devs doing *crickets*.
Plus the problems in 'endgame' confrontations, as shown in the quote above.

So in case you dislike the lack of permadeath... come up with a way to remove the endless growth (both of qualities and characters) so that, should death return, the slaughtering of civilians comes with a low enough penalty for them (not for the one holding the B12) to not drive them from the game.



Regarding Truffels/Pepper/(spices in general): they could get satiations of their own, with the consequence of eating one on a regular basis being a massive reduction of the effect of that spice. That would at least reduce the effect they can have on characters and remove the need to bot them for quantity as 'more' won't help at some (hopefully soon) point.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Vraatjuh » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:40 am

Granger wrote:The problem is that when there is nothing stopping a character from running around slaughtering everyone else that moves... that is exactly what will happen (and did, each and every world so far) and leds to way too many unhappy for of the lulz of a few.

The open PvP + endless growth + permadeath combination does not make a fun game, at least not for longer than some very few months. Simply because there is a certain point at which the penalty for loss of a character gets too massive, possibly not for the ones running around with bot fed alts... but all the rest of normal humans. That's the reason I came up with the suggestion to toggle death using rage: there needs to be something that stops the slaughter of civilians to no longer 'game over' them, so the worlds population dosn't shrink down to the psychopaths that complain that they ran out of targets.


QFT

The downside to bringing back perma-death is just too big for the casual players. It's been such a bless this world, to just be able to go out whenever you want and not be afraid to get killed every time you see something move. It has even led to a lot more interaction with 'strangers' this world, because not everyone is automatically hearthing back anymore.

I always used to make alts for going outside, just because of the risk of getting killed with your main(s).
This world I have actually played with 2 characters max.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Pan_w_okularach » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:24 am

Granger wrote:The problem is that when there is nothing stopping a character from running around slaughtering everyone else that moves... .

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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Lyrroth » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:16 am

+1 to change farming, but I feel like it wouldn't fix anything since bots would still replant more often giving a bigger Chance of +5 and such. The core problem is that bots and nolifes can plant at any given time while other players have to rotate or accept the odds of lower Chance and praying to RNGesus.

+1 to coracles and sleds

+1 to flower menu, always was a cancer when I had to use a shit quality connection

HEART CONTAINERS
I would rather change the effect than item itself. It still should give HHP, but if player gets K.Oed and not killed, the extra hp is refunded in terms of fast regeneration.
How it would work: Player survives being K.Oed and returns to hearthfire. On succesful return, lets say that 50hp from containers is consumed and player wounds are healed as if player have had consumed 50q ancient root.
This way the item retain it's purpouse but it is possible to lose the stack.

Scholarly Accounts are out of my reach but kinda the amount of time you need to spend in order to achieve this seems balanced to me.

+1 to rework of icycles

Anvil spiraling is a cool mechanic. It should remain but the problem is not that its broken but thats its hard to catch somebody who never stopped. It is good as it is, just hard to say if you can't catch up because you're not trying hard enough or market metal goes to the winner. Feel like you need to make a competition here instead of cry plea.

+1 to cancer drinking on bad connection

no idea bout meteorities

always considered truffles more of a curiosity than an actual thing to go for due to randomness and tediousness

+1 to raw hide

quality to local node should be left as it is, people who mega quested early on manager to get quality of nettles from 30 to 90 but it took more than month and it was ratrace from faction to overpowerd one another and then i never seen +100q forage stuff so it always slow down. You can't also trigger what you want so first it is tedious , two i don't think anybody will go so far and you're just making the at best small problem, being power ranger Rita big buffed problem. Not to say it's good mechanic for those who always "joins late"

rage problems:
people already explained its better now than it was w10 and you lack perspective.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Granger » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:55 pm

Lyrroth wrote:HEART CONTAINERS
I would rather change the effect than item itself. It still should give HHP, but if player gets K.Oed and not killed, the extra hp is refunded in terms of fast regeneration.
How it would work: Player survives being K.Oed and returns to hearthfire. On succesful return, lets say that 50hp from containers is consumed and player wounds are healed as if player have had consumed 50q ancient root.
This way the item retain it's purpouse but it is possible to lose the stack.

So basically turn them into Silver for the Ferryman, to work as a 1up for rage characters succumbing in combat?

Scholarly Accounts are out of my reach but kinda the amount of time you need to spend in order to achieve this seems balanced to me.

That it's hard to obtain has no logical connection to the effect of it being OP or not.
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