List of game breaking balance issues

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Ants » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:34 am

SnuggleSnail wrote:How is Jorb killing some nab by breaking their rowboat the second it touches the ocean different to Bleh smacking them?

The answer is dying to Bleh is more interesting & meaningful.
It creates a potential long term conflict, goals, and forces meaningful decisions. I've hunted down and murdered/raided everybody who fricked with me when I was new, and it's to the point where I wish more people had because of how great turning the tables feels.
There's a reasonable opportunity for nabs who don't know how to run/fight to get out of Bleh killing them in fun and interesting ways, for example I've had people:
  • Bribe me to not kill/raid them
  • Flirt with me from the inside of their walls as I'm raiding them to get me to stop
  • Threaten retaliation/pretend they have scary friends I don't want as enemies
  • Plead
  • Offer to be slaves
  • Excessive admiration, followed by asking to be an "apprentice", for lack of a better term
  • Probably a bunch of other funny stuff I don't remember

And you know what. Sometimes it works. You know when AAA RPGs gets marketed as having "meaningful choices", or "meaningful dialog"? Haven is the only game where that's a real thing, and death not being reasonable hurts that a lot.

Ahh, I can relate. Getting raided and killed sucks, but being able to get revenge makes it all worth it. And talking with enemies is fun, too. I got spared a few times for cracking dumb jokes.

The possibility of losing your hard work gave this game an emotional aspect that other games lack.

Granger wrote:There are enough assholes that slaughter every character that's not in their green list, it's fully irrelevant if you are actively hunting me


In every world there have been quiet places where the chance of randomly running into a hostile dude is basically zero, that people who want to live in peace and boredom can go. You have enough experience to know this is the case.
[/quote]
This is correct. If you spawn next to hostile people and really can't defend yourself for some reason, you can always move somewhere more secluded. Even if you're on a small continent it doesn't take long to learn boatbuilding. If your attackers are so rabidly thirsty for your blood they bother chasing down your canoe, just start a new character and spawn in some other part of the world lol.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Granger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:23 am

SnuggleSnail wrote:... for example I've had people:
  • Bribe me to not kill/raid them
  • Flirt with me from the inside of their walls as I'm raiding them to get me to stop
  • Threaten retaliation/pretend they have scary friends I don't want as enemies
  • Plead
  • Offer to be slaves
  • Excessive admiration, followed by asking to be an "apprentice", for lack of a better term
  • Probably a bunch of other funny stuff I don't remember
Asshole in the game.

I'm just gonna put this out there for anybody without a lot of haven experience, or that don't read the forums a lot. Granger is a liar. He argues in bad faith constantly, and it's extremely obvious he's never trying to "get to the truth", he only ever tries to "win" arguments. I would strongly suggest ignoring anything Granger says, because he's both super out of touch, and anything he says will be at best an extreme misrepresentation of the truth, but usually just a lie.

Asshole on the forum.

At least you're consistent.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Granger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:36 am

Ants wrote:Keep your crafters behind walls and make forager/roadbuilding alts. Problem solved.

Not everyone likes to play this game with multiple characters in parallel.
The problem is that the ones multi-boxing it gain a massive advantage over the ones that do not, while sharing the same world.

I still think that there should be a second server, subscription only with one character per account. While that wouldn't completely remove alts (which are one of the cancers eating the game) it would at least attach a price tag to them to reduce their use.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby ctopolon4 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:54 am

Granger wrote:subscription only with one character per account

yep payment will stop botting and alt spam ¦] even if they can afford new subscribe every day

https://youtu.be/fFIbknLR8oA?t=617
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby wonder-ass » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:30 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:There's a reasonable opportunity for nabs who don't know how to run/fight to get out of Bleh killing them in fun and interesting ways, for example I've had people:
  • Flirt with me from the inside of their walls as I'm raiding them to get me to stop


its true flattery works, especially when they compliment my huge penis.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Granger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:24 pm

ctopolon4 wrote:
Granger wrote:subscription only with one character per account

yep payment will stop botting and alt spam ¦] even if they can afford new subscribe every day

Would at least result in them paying up to the developers, increasing the chance for work on the game being done (instead of the devs having to do other stuff to bring food on the table). So should botting and alt spam (along your argument of them burning through one new subscribe per day) cost them >2.5k€ per year... fine with me, I'll then even argue that it's time to increase the cost of the short-term subscriptions (or directly remove the <180 day options) to bleed them even quicker.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby ctopolon4 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:21 pm

thats the reason why devs shouldnt stop botting and alt spam, because here alot players wanna good stuff and ready to pay for it, and botters are provides good stuff, and devs are happy until it goes with tokens/hats, and not happy when RMT starts
P.S. if you increase subscription cost you just increase cost of 999anvil and 9lvl mine for donaters, hardcore players always will be able invest money to get more money, that how most part of p2w games works atm.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Astarisk » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:01 pm

Granger wrote:
ctopolon4 wrote:
Granger wrote:subscription only with one character per account

yep payment will stop botting and alt spam ¦] even if they can afford new subscribe every day

Would at least result in them paying up to the developers, increasing the chance for work on the game being done (instead of the devs having to do other stuff to bring food on the table). So should botting and alt spam (along your argument of them burning through one new subscribe per day) cost them >2.5k€ per year... fine with me, I'll then even argue that it's time to increase the cost of the short-term subscriptions (or directly remove the <180 day options) to bleed them even quicker.


They did try subscription only in the first hafen world if you don't recall that. It wasn't too well received. Furthermore its not like that is a real barrier seeing as how account sharing is so common. Looking through my login list alone I have access to something like 67 accounts and only a few are mine. It isn't a problem for a well established village to just have enough accounts subbed to get things done. And let's be real, there is no proper solution to account sharing that wouldn't have unintended impacts on legitimate players.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Granger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:45 pm

Astarisk wrote:They did try subscription only in the first hafen world if you don't recall that. It wasn't too well received.

I recall that and, given what I have seen since then I still think that they should have doubled down (instead of caving, like they did).

Furthermore its not like that is a real barrier seeing as how account sharing is so common. Looking through my login list alone I have access to something like 67 accounts and only a few are mine.

That would be a minimum cost of 469€ (to keep them alive for one month), given you optimize for low cost regardless of time (usi<ng silver yearly subscriptions) it would be 3.350€ to keep that 67 characters (I take it you went full throwaway with one character per account) accessible. Plus each and every additional character you have forgotten about - or you'll have to scale back.

Both sound good to me.

ctopolon4 wrote:P.S. if you increase subscription cost you just increase cost of 999anvil and 9lvl mine for donaters, hardcore players always will be able invest money to get more money, that how most part of p2w games works atm.

Yea, I forgot: no tokens should exist on that second server. And before you start to ague: I would still pay for one (the cost to host it) for it to run a world in parallel with the normal one, to end the who's right about how many users would pick what choice of rules (meaning which of the servers they would play on).
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby bmjclark » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:10 pm

Granger wrote:
Astarisk wrote:They did try subscription only in the first hafen world if you don't recall that. It wasn't too well received.

I recall that and, given what I have seen since then I still think that they should have doubled down (instead of caving, like they did).


Well, i guess there is merit in the idea that no one will bot and grief and multibox on this second server if no one plays it. There were literally times where there were fewer than 20 people on in w8. Given the choice being mandatory payment and optional payment, im quite sure everyones going to take the optional payment everytime. Though i guess a few people will finally get that "single player" server they've been looking for.
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