Dungeon rewards

[overtyped]

All the above mentioned solutions are fine(making them boost con, removing them or making them less available).
I personally like leaving them to the hardest dungeon just to limit their availability severely.
It wont make much of a dent in balance imo if they are still left in bat dungeons. Right now any noob can go grind ant dungeons which fuels the imbalanced characters.

I hope they choose any of the options to change heart containers and only do it after world reset.

or OR you could go play hello kitty island adventure and not come back, and stop trying to pussify the game.

[SnuggleSnail]

What is the highest +HP any of your characters have had from heart containers?
@Overtyped

[MagicManICT]

or OR you could go play hello kitty island adventure and not come back, and stop trying to pussify the game.

Quit trying to defend the indefensible. They were bad before the recent combat change (that was reverted). That change just showed how broken they were. At least, on paper, they're bad. As the scenario you present shows, it's bad to not have access to any, and bad to use too many because it just won't make your game any easier. Also, that whole previous argument is just laughable. Show me a game where a casual can actually compete with a serious competitor. Just cause you max level max gear in WoW or some other MMORPG doesn't make you competitive no matter how much the devs try to level the playing field. (Just take chess for an example. Everyone starts off with the exact same pieces!)

If they're kept, the +10 con (i'd suggest lower like 1, 2, or 5) is the best bet.

Could someone that has used a lot of heart containers actually chime in and give an analysis, though, or some stats from their character if they're willing to share? Us scrubs can theorycraft min/maxing characters all day, but what we think works and how it looks on paper is different than what actually shows up in practice.

[azrid]

or OR you could go play hello kitty island adventure and not come back, and stop trying to pussify the game.

Amen brother! I don't want to pussify the game either I just question your methods.
We shouldn't balance the game around seasonal players like you.
The goal is a world that doesn't end so heart containers would be a huge oversight left in current form.

[SaltyCrate]

For how "strong", "broken" and "indefensible" the heart containers are decsribed, I, for one, fail to see it. If anything, the group I played with generally found it too weak to be worth the effort. In the other topic there was an example of getting 2K hp from heart containers in roughly 1.5 months. So what, who cares?

Even if your hp was 10,000 if you are surrounded it's over. and every heart container someone takes is making their losses all the more severe if they get surrounded and die.

I share this sentiment. Even if this is oversimplification I find that amount of hp on one single titan is not even secondary but tertiary to the outcome of any significant group fight. And given the amount of effort, bought or otherwise, which is required to obtain large number of heart containers it seems pretty fine to me overall. Let no-lifers no-life it if they want, this particular way is imo very far from being most significant way they will have advantage over you.

[SnuggleSnail]

RE: pussifying the game

OK. There are currently afaik somewhere between 0-3 people grinding their stats right now. Your chance is running into somebody spooky in the world is basically zero even over an extremely long period of activity. Which world more suits carebears more:

1) there actually being people roaming about wanting to murder nibbas
2) there being like two spooky people in the world because it's too much effort to make a good character, and neither can kill the other 'cause they have 4k hp and need to max cleave the other multiple times which is EXTREMELY UNREALISTIC without there being a big squad attacking


RE: it's fine it because E F F O R T

Ye, if by effort you mean bot things you were going to bot anyway and sell your 5 generation old garbage for absurd prices to buy heart containers. It's literally a case of if you have the best anvil you can afford to pay the most for heart containers, so you get the most heart containers and it's passive as fuck. (((before you say anvil spiraling is confirmed being removed there will always be some shit factions can sell hermits that takes next to no effort to produce)))

The above example of 2k HP in 1.5 months, for context, would mean surviving an additional max cleave from a high stated player every 1.5 months. And the above example was bunsey, who was just buying them at equal prices to like 4 other guys with stands further away from the center of CF.

[azrid]

too weak to be worth the effort.

There is no effort involved if you are doing it right.

[MagicManICT]

For how "strong", "broken" and "indefensible" the heart containers are decsribed, I, for one, fail to see it. If anything, the group I played with generally found it too weak to be worth the effort. In the other topic there was an example of getting 2K hp from heart containers in roughly 1.5 months. So what, who cares?

And you may very well be right. The problem is that to get to 2k HP from con, you're looking at 4000 CON. Last world, this was nothing, and heart containers weren't a big deal. I've no idea where anyone is sitting at this world. I'm sure we've exceeded that by now on the top characters (pretty sure it was exceeded back with the broken roasting spits).

Balance issues with a small mechanic that is broken may be meaningless when introduced, but you add in just the right change, and the small problem becomes a huge one--one that unbalances the game for all. If it is a small and mostly meaningless mechanic, then there's not much point in keeping it. OR it needs to be reworked into something with more balance in the game.

[Astarisk]

For how "strong", "broken" and "indefensible" the heart containers are decsribed, I, for one, fail to see it. If anything, the group I played with generally found it too weak to be worth the effort. In the other topic there was an example of getting 2K hp from heart containers in roughly 1.5 months. So what, who cares?

And you may very well be right. The problem is that to get to 2k HP from con, you're looking at 4000 CON. Last world, this was nothing, and heart containers weren't a big deal. I've no idea where anyone is sitting at this world. I'm sure we've exceeded that by now on the top characters (pretty sure it was exceeded back with the broken roasting spits).

Balance issues with a small mechanic that is broken may be meaningless when introduced, but you add in just the right change, and the small problem becomes a huge one--one that unbalances the game for all. If it is a small and mostly meaningless mechanic, then there's not much point in keeping it. OR it needs to be reworked into something with more balance in the game.

Heart containers weren't too big a deal last world due to the nature of death last world. You weren't guaranteed to be killed if you got downed in combat, it was more of a chance depending on how your HHP looked. When death becomes more guaranteed you start to care more about the nuances of the system. Though I will say heart containers mattered enough to some groups as they had bots that randomly wandered the river systems finding beaver dens for them.

The issue with heart containers is similar to the issues of archery. A mechanic is introduced into the game that bypasses all scaling. There's no cap to it what so ever, even if you just consumed one heart container a day the world is almost a year old and that'd pretty much just equal an extra 3650 HP. Sure someone might not have achieved it yet (I wouldn't know what the statistics looks like), but when I was actively playing I was able to stumble across a dungeon a day without much issue (Though I was a kind soul and round robin the heart containers instead of feeding one character). I'd be interested to know how many dungeons have been cleared and how many heart containers exist in general. If its not already a problem it has the potential to be a problem. Health can change the dynamics of combat quite a lot.

We have to keep in mind that titan characters belong to groups with the best industries. They are not only beating you in stats, they are beating you in everything from armor quality to gildings. Its a system that creates a huge gap between the average player and the most advanced. They not only have much higher health, they have much better damage mitigation and much higher damage output. Closing such a gap is nearly impossible. It makes it virtually unfeasible for a new faction to appear and start influencing the political dynamics when they can just easily be bullied off the world by a few characters. The long term health of the game greatly depends on shifting power structures. It creates a much more lively and interesting world. Once one group becomes so dominant nothing happens anymore really. The world itself just feels stale.

I could ramble more on the topic but I think this pretty much just sums up the state of the game in general. We need to be able to create a system that maintains a fun political dynamic at all levels of play and doesn't encourage the runaway stats of a few characters.

[Zentetsuken]

Heart containers weren't too big a deal last world due to the nature of death last world. You weren't guaranteed to be killed if you got downed in combat, it was more of a chance depending on how your HHP looked. When death becomes more guaranteed you start to care more about the nuances of the system. Though I will say heart containers mattered enough to some groups as they had bots that randomly wandered the river systems finding beaver dens for them.

The issue with heart containers is similar to the issues of archery. A mechanic is introduced into the game that bypasses all scaling. There's no cap to it what so ever, even if you just consumed one heart container a day the world is almost a year old and that'd pretty much just equal an extra 3650 HP. Sure someone might not have achieved it yet (I wouldn't know what the statistics looks like), but when I was actively playing I was able to stumble across a dungeon a day without much issue (Though I was a kind soul and round robin the heart containers instead of feeding one character). I'd be interested to know how many dungeons have been cleared and how many heart containers exist in general. If its not already a problem it has the potential to be a problem. Health can change the dynamics of combat quite a lot.

We have to keep in mind that titan characters belong to groups with the best industries. The are not only beating you in stats, they are beating you in everything from armor quality to gildings. Its a system that creates a huge gap between the average player and the most advanced. They not only have much higher health, they have much better damage mitigation and much higher damage output. Closing such a gap is nearly impossible. It makes it virtually unfeasible for a new faction to appear and start influencing the political dynamics when they can just easily be bullied off the world by a few characters. The long term health of the game greatly depends on shifting power structures. It creates a much more lively and interesting world. Once one group becomes so dominant nothing happens anymore really. The world itself just feels stale.

I could ramble more on the topic but I think this pretty much just sums up the state of the game in general. We need to be able to create a system that maintains a fun political dynamic at all levels of play and doesn't encourage the runaway stats of a few characters.

/thread basically

remove heart containers, shift to more aesthetic-themed trophy rewards for dungeons

there is no debate here