Player Versus Player Interaction Change

[Mario_Demorez]

Also your idea even contradicts itself lol.

How so?

[Aceb]

f you attack a criminal you do not become one yourself.

And this would benefit me of not being even a criminal for doing this to You.

Maybe the player shouldn’t attack a random alt that’s obviously trying to bait them outside. But yes technically you still don’t get criminal but as it stands you don’t get punished for doing it now either. You can maybe not hearth for an hour. Just add it to where if you are in combat at all you can’t fast travel (with another hearthling).

You have trouble following directions so I will repeat myself. This would grant me an easy way to FORCE YOU TO ATTACK A RANDOM ALT(s) and then PUNISH YOU FOR THAT. It's not a question if or when.

Remove murder and everything pvp related to murder as it is right now.

knock out someone with higher UA/MC/AGI the person knocked out is now killable. This allows people to kill people who can defend themselves.

All of these changes would make pvp more interesting and enjoyable for people in the game.

So this is my last post here cuz You don't even understand what You are proposing and talking about. This is bad idea, it benefits only those who know how-to and You clearly are not one of those who know. Not to say it's has high potential to be exploitable.

[PrincessBubblegum]

In Metin there was a similar "karma" system. The result was that people would annoy you to death, insult you, steal all the kills, follow you around, just to make you mad. The very moment you attacked them, even if it was just one hit, you'd get a negative karma (so equal as being a criminal in this case) so they could freely kill you. Then, since it wasn't a permadeath game, you were marked for life as an evil character (in this case we could just say in case you manage to not get killed the first time would be the same situation) because raising karma was much harder than lowering it, and so you wouldn't be able to play anymore, since every single player would attack you on sight to get experience, and if you tried to defend yourself as criminal your karma would just go deeper in the drain, so all people that fell for the impossible to withstand insults and griefing or trolls, had either to be extremely high level, so they would literally walk killing everyone on sight, since they all attacked them, or wouldn't be able anymore to play, since the spawning square was the only area where you weren't able to be attacked.
I'd like to not be killed by annoying pvpers, but this kind of system seems to not work well.

[Mario_Demorez]

At Aceb.

Your English is bad. Not quite easy to follow. Your logic is also bad. Currently you can already use an alt to force a player out of their base and initiate combat and become red handed. You can then log in on another character and kill them. The only thing that would change is that your main character would not be a criminal after doing this. I don’t see how the current system punishes you currently for doing it now. Your main character isn’t killable in any common scenario in the games state.

Also, only saying this because you’re using my inability to understand your broken English as an argument against this idea. Congrats on knowing multiple languages but you should pay more attention when someone says they can’t follow your sentence.

[Mario_Demorez]

In Metin there was a similar "karma" system. The result was that people would annoy you to death, insult you, steal all the kills, follow you around, just to make you mad. The very moment you attacked them, even if it was just one hit, you'd get a negative karma (so equal as being a criminal in this case) so they could freely kill you. Then, since it wasn't a permadeath game, you were marked for life as an evil character (in this case we could just say in case you manage to not get killed the first time would be the same situation) because raising karma was much harder than lowering it, and so you wouldn't be able to play anymore, since every single player would attack you on sight to get experience, and if you tried to defend yourself as criminal your karma would just go deeper in the drain, so all people that fell for the impossible to withstand insults and griefing or trolls, had either to be extremely high level, so they would literally walk killing everyone on sight, since they all attacked them, or wouldn't be able anymore to play, since the spawning square was the only area where you weren't able to be attacked.
I'd like to not be killed by annoying pvpers, but this kind of system seems to not work well.

This system doesn’t reset your criminal status when you defend yourself. It also doesn’t perma mark you. And there’s no actually number you have to raise or lower. This system doesn’t add anything new to the game to encourage you to come out of your walls that doesn’t already exist. If someone’s building a palisade around your base you are going to go out and Agro them and they probably have an alt waiting for that.

[rye130]

If a criminal is agro'd the person who agros them does not become a criminal themselves or leave a scent.

If a dead body was a criminal then the items on the body can be stolen and trespassed upon without leaving scents or making the "looter" a criminal.

Ways to lose this privilege:

Anyone who is an outlaw. This will allow criminals to have justice claimed upon them. However, another thing needs to be changed in the game for this entire idea to work: If you attack a criminal you do not become one yourself. You do not leave a scent or become red-handed if the person you agro/lootbody was a criminal. Why punish people for defending them or someone else?

It should also be added that if someone does knock out someone with higher (or maybe even close to) UA/MC/AGI the person knocked out is now killable. This allows people to kill people who can defend themselves.

And finally, if someone does kill someone else they get an instant amount of that player's LP.

So what this sounds like to me is that I can do whatever I want to someone after forcing them to become a criminal in some way. So all just use alts to inconvenience them in every way I can possibly imagine. When they finally do something about it (attack the alt) I've now made them into a criminal and can knock them out and loot them without any consequence.

Systems like this are going to be abused by the people they are looking to punish.

[Mario_Demorez]

If a criminal is agro'd the person who agros them does not become a criminal themselves or leave a scent.

If a dead body was a criminal then the items on the body can be stolen and trespassed upon without leaving scents or making the "looter" a criminal.

Ways to lose this privilege:

Anyone who is an outlaw. This will allow criminals to have justice claimed upon them. However, another thing needs to be changed in the game for this entire idea to work: If you attack a criminal you do not become one yourself. You do not leave a scent or become red-handed if the person you agro/lootbody was a criminal. Why punish people for defending them or someone else?

It should also be added that if someone does knock out someone with higher (or maybe even close to) UA/MC/AGI the person knocked out is now killable. This allows people to kill people who can defend themselves.

And finally, if someone does kill someone else they get an instant amount of that player's LP.

So what this sounds like to me is that I can do whatever I want to someone after forcing them to become a criminal in some way. So all just use alts to inconvenience them in every way I can possibly imagine. When they finally do something about it (attack the alt) I've now made them into a criminal and can knock them out and loot them without any consequence.

Systems like this are going to be abused by the people they are looking to punish.

Gotta be honest. Did not really think about people baiting people out of their own walls to stop trolls. I personally wouldn't do that now due to it being an obvious bait. With my system though the troll would not be punished. Can not really think of a way to punish them. Possible make it where if you're a certain distance from your claim you can agro people without becoming a criminal? IMO there does have to be a limit to how far out the "Baiting" can go. If someone is drawing dicks a minimap away and you attack them for it I don't consider that justice.

[PrincessBubblegum]

So what this sounds like to me is that I can do whatever I want to someone after forcing them to become a criminal in some way. So all just use alts to inconvenience them in every way I can possibly imagine. When they finally do something about it (attack the alt) I've now made them into a criminal and can knock them out and loot them without any consequence.

Systems like this are going to be abused by the people they are looking to punish.

That is the parallel that I meant to highlight between the two systems.

[Mario_Demorez]

I feel like the only reasonable scenario that you should be able to attack someone is if they are near or on your property without becoming a criminal. If you are out boating and around and they're cussing you out I don't feel like that's a good reason to attack someone without possible repercussions. If someone is taking salt from a basin and you attack them I feel like you should have to deal with the results.

[PrincessBubblegum]

I think you are just low on experience with griefers, they can do much more than just cussing: they can follow you around cussing all day, stealing or destroying the corpses of everything you hunt, maybe that sweet bear that you almost died to kill, they can follow you in the cave where you're mining, because you didn't just claim every square meter where you move, and destroy the pillars so they cave you in, they can steal or destroy your rowboat, destroy your wagon you are even on, if they are strong enough they can bash your parked snekkja, while they follow you they could forage everything they see around you just to make it very difficult or impossible for you to forage what you need, they can pile logs and shit in front of your gates and around your base all day long just to make you mad, or just dig ditches around your place for the sake of making everything annoying and uncomfortable, they could rawhide your horses serially or attack them.
These are just the examples I can think right now on the top of my head, having never been griefer or troll but having seen the kind of stuff they do, I'm sure that some real ones could find many more ways to just bring you to exasperation and force you to attack them.