Balancing Nidbanes

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Hasta » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:41 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:Have you considered raising your stats and learning to fight to get revenge on whoever fricked you up?

That's an option, yes, but, sadly, this thread is not about different ways of getting revenge. We're talking about balancing the one way that is not viable right now, although specifically designed solely for that purpose (it's actually in the thread name).
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby boshaw » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:43 pm

Procne wrote:Balancing Nidbanes

Procne wrote:1. Nidbanes cannot be fought

Procne wrote:Although if the target left a lot of scents, and his enemies were dedicated Nidbane summoners then he wouldn't have much chance.

:lol:
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Procne » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:44 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:Have you considered raising your stats and learning to fight to get revenge on whoever fricked you up?

I did, not worth the time and effort, since I would have to spend 3-4x more time in the game, doing something I do not enjoy. Not that I would be able to catch up with the big buys who seem to play 24/7 with heavy utilization of bots.
Are you implying that's the only proper way of playing the game?
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Headchef » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:11 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:Have you considered raising your stats and learning to fight to get revenge on whoever fricked you up?


They have considered it most likely but figured out it costs actual amount of effort so to circumvent this they try to make an easy effortless suggestion on forums.

The fact you even think that ''summoner wounds'' and that kind of shit matters on it's own shows how far you are from the reality.
This is all completely irrelevant.

Even when two fighters are equal stats to eachother there is still a person behind it playing it which can make mistakes.

You take out the entire part of human input and change it to ''summon ghost''

While at the same time giving ''summong ghost'' a very significant advantage, because summon ghost can actually harm the real warrior.

Whatever you try to fantasize about next it will be irrelevant because you will get shitter-realms who have no fighters and become some type of scent-vultures that do nothing but sit in walls and annoy people who try to keep the pvp going.

Procne wrote:

1. random skirmishes where players only fight - thus KOs and possible murders, without theft or vandalism. In this case there will be a few scents, possibly spread between different characters. Thus not that big damage to the winning side. And the winning side already got the advantage be defeating some enemy characters
2. realm sieges. And here I think there should be no Nidbanes at all. If factions fight each other then siege mechanics should take over, and scents should not be left in sieged area
3. raiding random villages / camps. Those should leave scents and here's where Nidbanes would be strongest, due to large amount of left scents. So every raid like this should be a calculation - whether it's worth the potential Nidbane retaliation. Whether big factions will grab the scents and make Nidbanes. Is the risk too big? IMO it's better situation than "I'm stronk, I raid everything for giggles"

"


This also shows that you have no idea what goes on.

1. First of all would not call it random it's either someone being stalked/ganked/baited or tracked. Another exception is gatherings for meteor where group fights take place.
The moment someone goes to the floor, soon he will hearthfire, for this reason you open the steal menu, drop his entire belt content, study window, inventory and equipment.
If there is anything useful you can sort it out later and he will port back naked. Every ko therefore equals tons of theft scents.

2. Nice line of text (?) but if players have scents from previous encounters such as situation 1 and if not enough time has passed they will definitely get haunted by those ghosts from earlier ocassion.

3. So what you are saying is here when someone breaks the wall he does it on his strong character and then his noob with 60k lp and only theft goes in to actually move everything off claim.


So to sum it up:

does absolutely nothing meaningful, only annoyance, no game benefit

please fantasize more about this and let us know when you can come up with something good but this is unbalanced nonsense.
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Hasta » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:30 pm

Headchef wrote:please fantasize more about this and let us know when you can come up with something good but this is unbalanced nonsense.


Don't take this as an offence but I don't recognise your authority on judging C&I in such a... finite manner, not to mention you being a sole speaker on behalf of, presumably, experienced PvPers that you designate as "us".

Your personal opinion, undoubtedly based on your vast and thorough experience is, however, heard and appreciated.

Let's not clutter the thread with empty bickering @everyone here.
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Kuddie » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:14 pm

Bad idea. My last post is very appropriate in here.

Kuddie wrote:Just take matters into your own hands instead of relying on a nidbane to do your dirty work.
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby DDDsDD999 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:46 pm

Imagine wanting to kill other people because you collect some wax and metal
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Zentetsuken » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:50 pm

who is this headchef kid acting like all ideas relative to PVP must first go through him :lol:

never even heard of this kid, never seen his name in any of the 100s of PVP videos out there

somebody must be bored to get so angry at a little idea

Regardless of any super angry rebuttals, Procne's point about Nidbanes being useless is something everybody knows, there is no need to get so super angry at somebody giving an opinion on how to fix them.

I think they were meant to be implemented so people who aren't ready, willing or able to jump in to the PVP battlefield will have SOMETHING to deter a greifer with, right?

Well if they are not a reason for a greifer to give a second thought to leaving a bunch of scents then they aren't really doing their job.

Certainly there is no need to get so, so super angry.
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Procne » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:20 pm

Headchef wrote:They have considered it most likely but figured out it costs actual amount of effort so to circumvent this they try to make an easy effortless suggestion on forums.

It's not as effortless as for the strong player to just nuke noobs he randomly finds in the world
You take out the entire part of human input and change it to ''summon ghost''
One could argue that there's not much human interaction in breaking someone's stuff when they are offline, or robbing some noob with drastically lower stats after 2-hitting him .

The moment someone goes to the floor, soon he will hearthfire, for this reason you open the steal menu, drop his entire belt content, study window, inventory and equipment.
If there is anything useful you can sort it out later and he will port back naked. Every ko therefore equals tons of theft scents.
Then either people should face the consequences of leaving the theft scent or the theft scents might be made un-summonable. I think the latter could be used at first, as a soft change, and later we could see what can be done with theft.

2. Nice line of text (?) but if players have scents from previous encounters such as situation 1 and if not enough time has passed they will definitely get haunted by those ghosts from earlier ocassion.

Between Nidbanes being easily outran in the beginning, applying damage slowly, not engaging in combat and dealing only some damage, rather than being potentialy lethal - is that so big of a problem?
3. So what you are saying is here when someone breaks the wall he does it on his strong character and then his noob with 60k lp and only theft goes in to actually move everything off claim.

Well, he still have to take this alt. If we leave theft scents summonable then there's a chance the alt would die. If we don't then only the strong character gets some wounds (IF a nidbane is sent against him) from a single nidbane. It's still some inconvenience to the attacker.

@everyone guys calm down, there are some valid points raised. I don't care about the attitude as long as there is something constructive coming out of it.

In general I would like the Nidbanes to be a form of "a cost" for doing crimes, rather than the binary implementation we have currently, where most of the time nidbane does nothing, but if you fail to deal with it you might die.
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Re: Balancing Nidbanes

Postby Chieves » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:35 pm

The general idea that the strong dominate the weak is a terrible idea in a videogame. You want all of the players to have fun, but how are they supposed to have fun if they can't deter griefers? It's a sandbox, not everyone wants to be a fighter, some just want to grow cabbage and be farmers. So, the cabbage farmers need to have some sort of way to defend themselves. In medieval times, peasants paid dues to their Lord, and in turn the Lord was obligated to defend the peasants with his army. In this game, you don't need to pay taxes, thus having no social contract with any kind of Lord. Instead, you make an offering(pay tax) to a nidbane(Lord) to defend you, once you show the proof(scent), making a Nidbane the replacement for a medieval nobleman. Furthermore, a peasant may sleep with his animals in his home, so they protect him in case of an intrusion, which is not possible H&H. There is no other way, unless you force people to play in a way that they do not want to.
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