Crop quality limits critique.

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby Headchef » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:27 pm

Magicman wonderful ideas man making neighbours quit for patches of land with a higher crop quality how beneficial for the game to be even more toxic about potential farmland and make the player population go down even faster thanks for this insight

It's a shit mechanic and if you don't realise that then that is due to people mostly sitting on the forum or inside their base doing nothing but fantasising about how it could be in theory meanwhile never really played to that point or realise the consequences of the stupidity that follows from such mechanics and therefore also opinions

It's rightfully not okay to make a joke realm name about playercount going down but meanwhile spouting garbage ideas that effectively talk about making people quit as a moderator due to fantasising to hard apparently is okay?

Farmers are the people who keep this game running when it's in later stages with 200 playercount and this ridiculous mechanic just gives them a middle finger great way to go this way they will all shrug and drop the game because people who have no idea what they're talking about reckons this would actually create conflict, great way to aim for zero playercount.

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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby SnuggleSnail » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:44 pm

I might've misrepresented my point. There will be next to no conflict over flax growing areas, because it will always be a more effective use of your time to just make a new safepali as opposed to take somebody else's.

It's just a big time sink akin to searching for animal quality nodes, except instead of killing an animal, you make a claim>wait a month for power%>go back and make a pali>wait 2 days for it to soak>go back and plant a flax>wait for it to grow>harvest it>probably replant/check it 2 or 3 more times in case your +0 was just bad luck>make your next safepali. Kinda cancer, but maybe not so bad if near topQ nodes aren't very uncommon. I suspect they are uncommon.
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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby Zentetsuken » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:01 pm

I tend to agree with Magicman on this.

I also find it pretty funny that the people crying and ranting for 5 paragraphs about how this will make their farmers quit are the exact same people who cry and rant for 5 paragraphs about how everything in the game is botted.

I would be willing to bet there is an amount of non-bot farmers that can be counted on 1 hand who will personally cycle crops infinitely through a 2 year world. This infinite quality raising is not entertaining content for 99.99% of the community, it's just a dickwave for a tiny handful of people and it imbalances the game.

Is it necessary at any point to have q800 beets? I am asking honestly because I don't know the answer. I suspect that if everything else from wood to boneclay to metal and domestic animals is raised pretty uniformly and infinitely as the world progresses for 2 years that having q800 beets isn't actually necessary. To clarify, I am assuming that you could still continue to raise quality of animals and your own stats without hitting some impossible wall without having this.

Also, consider that having a bit of randomness added to the world is not terrible. Nobody is going to raid OR make 100 palis around the world to check quality, but if they do, then kudos. Is this more autistic than farming for 2 years straight? Debatable.

Also, also consider that after a year there might be developed markets and settlements in places all across the world, if somebody in the east has carrots that were allowed to grow 50q higher than yours, you can trade for them and now you have the highest carrots in the game because the node mechanic allows you to grow these higher quality carrots on your lower quality node without them losing quality if I remember correctly.

I see zero problems here.
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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby DPblH » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:37 pm

Crops sometimes goes down in quality after they hit limit. So it is the worst limitations ever, and we need more of them:
- Limit number of mined out tiles per day for account;
- Limit on how much exp you can get per character (also random as crop nodes, would be fun, I guarantee);
- Click limits (why not)
- Bring back limited gameplay per week (that was fun too!)

Last world we got super-duper limiting mechanics forced by Lunarius, which leads only to players quitting: famous "local trading" and limiting of travels and now he is using roads and charter stone!. Now he is forcing q40 crops limits. :roll:
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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby MagicManICT » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:42 pm

Headchef wrote:Magicman wonderful ideas man making neighbours quit for patches of land with a higher crop quality how beneficial for the game to be even more toxic about potential farmland and make the player population go down even faster thanks for this insight

If these are the only options you can possibly see out of my statement, then I feel sorry for you. You are lacking in vision, trolling, or something that is leaving your forum argument severely short of compelling. Attack the issue laterally and come at it from different sides, kind of like...

SnuggleSnail wrote:There will be next to no conflict over flax growing areas, because it will always be a more effective use of your time to just make a new safepali as opposed to take somebody else's.

It could actually be a non issue (which is the one I'd bet on). For anyone that was around in world 3, they'd recognize this from another mechanic. There were issues, but I don't recall it being a big problem, just another means to create potential conflict.
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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby Lunarius_Haberdash » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:36 pm

DPblH wrote:Last world we got super-duper limiting mechanics forced by Lunarius


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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby Enjoyment_2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:50 am

Headchef wrote:It's a shit mechanic and if you don't realise that then that is due to people mostly sitting on the forum or inside their base doing nothing but fantasising about how it could be in theory meanwhile never really played to that point or realise the consequences of the stupidity that follows from such mechanics and therefore also opinions

That's the problem I was talked about not once
The current state of this game just disallows ppl to make it better, and I do believe that the whole C&I forum should be closed and burned in Hel. Because every time, when ppl, who really play and knows how mechanics works and what's wrong with them, tries to point out their problems, there is allways some retards who argues against every single point in their "all cool man, just show some respect, don't criticise!" bullshit, like this:
Zentetsuken wrote:Also, also consider that after a year there might be developed markets and settlements in places all across the world, if somebody in the east has carrots that were allowed to grow 50q higher than yours, you can trade for them and now you have the highest carrots in the game because the node mechanic allows you to grow these higher quality carrots on your lower quality node without them losing quality if I remember correctly.

I see zero problems here.

Well, Alek, the problem doesn't disappear magically when you don't see it (and you don't become invisible when closes your eyes, grow up) - and your statement clearly shows that you don't understand how does this mechanics works but still you pushing your "all is good", based on what? your fantasies?

Also - noone gonna fight for those nodes, either noone gonna trade them (if we don't take a rmt for fiber(not seeds) as a good game mechanic)

So please, If you do not understand the things, that are talked about in some thread, just stay away, really no need to stick your valuable opinion in every single thread. It is called "providing false info", and should be a good reason to ban ppl (sadly noone cares on the validity of info nowadays, so I guess, it's okay?)
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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby Player_Population » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:59 am

Enjoyment_2 wrote:
Headchef wrote:It's a shit mechanic and if you don't realise that then that is due to people mostly sitting on the forum or inside their base doing nothing but fantasising about how it could be in theory meanwhile never really played to that point or realise the consequences of the stupidity that follows from such mechanics and therefore also opinions

That's the problem I was talked about not once
The current state of this game just disallows ppl to make it better, and I do believe that the whole C&I forum should be closed and burned in Hel.


Both sum it all up really.
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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby Zentetsuken » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:56 am

Enjoyment_2 wrote:Well, Alek, the problem doesn't disappear magically when you don't see it (and you don't become invisible when closes your eyes, grow up) - and your statement clearly shows that you don't understand how does this mechanics works but still you pushing your "all is good", based on what? your fantasies?

Also - noone gonna fight for those nodes, either noone gonna trade them (if we don't take a rmt for fiber(not seeds) as a good game mechanic)

So please, If you do not understand the things, that are talked about in some thread, just stay away, really no need to stick your valuable opinion in every single thread. It is called "providing false info", and should be a good reason to ban ppl (sadly noone cares on the validity of info nowadays, so I guess, it's okay?)


Okay then Headchef Jr. please enlighten the blind masses about what the problem is.

Why does fighting for nodes matter? Nobody fights for any nodes anymore, high clay, water, local resources, they are all shared or traded for. What makes crops from nodes different in your valuable opinion?

What about my statement shows a lack of understanding? Why is it assumed I do not play the game because I believe high quality crops from nodes will be a trading asset?

You haven't displayed any understanding of game mechanics yourself. You haven't even provided your opinion on why you think the mechanic is broken. I invite you to share your fantasy with us rather than headchefing all over the place. You seem to really enjoy criticizing and analyzing your opinion of the devs and players, if you can't do the same with the parts of the game that you do not like then why are you here?
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Re: Crop quality limits critique.

Postby LunarArchon » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:15 pm

Maybe some of these issues can be mitigated by removing crop Quality capping and focusing on highly variable regional growth speed and yield.

Example:
Region A has flax that grows in 1-2 days while Region B has flax that takes 6-7. Farmers in A will have plenty of high Q flax while farmers in B will lag behind. The real estate in Region A would be valuable but this is mitigated by Region A having other crops that take 9 days to grow.

Players get to grow any high Q crops that they have either traded or cultivated. Trade is encouraged but not required as long as you are patient / can deal with slow Q growth. Random farm palisades seem a lot less desirable if your village/faction always has competitive hemp Q that you can trade for another factions high Q crops. Hermits and nabs can participate in trade or just offer their highest Q crops as tribute instead of getting harassed.

This shift towards monoculture would benefit from a new vehicle or something bigger then a wheelbarrow that lets players move singular crop shipments effectively. Or maybe liftable crop bundles that are 250 in size and can be stored in vehicles. Would love to roll a giant hay bale around.

The crop growth and yield bonuses from credos become even more valuable.

Some cool addition changes:
Give farmers the ability to increase crop yield via fertilizer or some sort of maintenance done on the crop. Increasing yield this way will shrink the amount of space used by farmers and make it less painful to grow the time consuming crops in your region.
Make it possible to Garden Pot WWWs so players have another path to high Q crops if they hate trading and farming or something.
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