The best siege idea you have ever heard

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The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby noindyfikator » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:09 pm

Currently there is no siege in game. Deal with it. Also brick wall is useless. Stealth is also uselles, no one cares about scents. Let's change it!

My idea is to "copy" cairn chalenges but with ultra tweaks. People who don't want to lose their base will also be happy, they just need to be good people or have enough stealth

So, there is a village claim or private claim. Later on i will use "the village" as synonym. The village is protected (current system) from beign vulnerable until a person which is a member of the village commit a crime. Depending on crime vulnerability "window" changes.

Crimes commited by members of the village on their own village/private claim DOESN'T MATTER. You can do whatever you want on your own claim.

Trespassing - no vulnerability
Rummaging - no vulnerability
Smell of Assault - 1 hour
Reek of Theft - 2 hours
Stink of Battery - 3 hours
Vile Vapor of Vandalism - 3 hours
Stench of Murder - 4 hours

How to make the village vulnerable? Let's use a mechanism similar to nidbane. There will be a magic spell, which can be connected with scent in equipment and then used to make the village vulnerable. If devs won't be lazy, they will make another altar for it. After magic is used there is 48 real life hours timer (perapration time for defender and attacker). After 48 hours the village becomes vulnerable for x hours. Defender and attacker can prepare themself. See above. Cost of magic spell - 20k exp.

Defender can ONE time delay challenge by 12 (or 3/6/12) hours using manage village options (during first 24 hours, after 24 hours you can't delay so people will know earlier when there is siege). (I take into consideration timezones, attacking empty village when everyone sleep is not fun).

There can be only one claim challenge per four weeks.
There will be also notification when you log in, if there is a challenge.

Attacker still have to construct siege machines, they will work exactly the same but WITHOUT drying time. Brick wall takes longer to destory than palisade. There will be massive fight with catapults, archery towers, wrecking balls on every side etc etc. True SIEGE!

There will be also additional trade mechanic. After you use magic you will get an item. Called "Village name + threat". You can right click on that item and select "destroy" and whole process will be deleted/closed etc. Why?
You can trade with defender, so if someone will knock out your friend, you can threat him that you will raid him if he won't pay back you. This can be done on barter stand. After 48 hours this item dissapears and the village is vulnerable.

Crimes done during vulnerability time doesn't count. You don't leave scents, get red handed etc when you do crimes on claim which is vulnerable. (copy pasta mechanic from private claim)

IMPORTANT: After "vulnerable window time" - 1/2/3/4 hours village becomes protected. No one can commit crimes on claim for 24 hours (or 26 hours) (time to rebuild palisade). So you need to do siege fast, bring carts, chests etc otherwise you will run out of time.
People won't be able to destroy completly the village. That would be bad.

I think it's easy to make for developers. There are a few "IF" statements and a new item / magic spell. Nothing sophisticated.

What do you think about it?

Tweaks:
To prevent people from leaving village before doing crime and joining after crime, add a mechanic which doesn't allow to rejoin village earlier than two weeks after leave. Party permission won't work for such person. (How often do you quit and join the same village?)
Last edited by noindyfikator on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:15 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby trinh » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:32 pm

hell no :geek:
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby vatas » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:40 pm

Well, for starters, how do you prevent someone having a dummy claim that their scents disable and using some other claim to hide while outlaw and store loot?
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby noindyfikator » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:42 pm

I just edited my post, changed a few numbers and added very important thing:
During 48h timer you can't move things outside of the claim (tweaked theft mechanic)
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby NoBizd » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:44 pm

I have to agree there is nearly no siege now, but your idea won't change much IMO. It's overcomplicated and have too many loopholes for even considering it. As Vatas said - will just get back to legacy bunkers/vaults, that will be used for messing around. Or... There is fight coming? You want to steal something? KO someone? You just leave the village and rejoin it after crime. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby noindyfikator » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:47 pm

NoBizd wrote:I have to agree there is nearly no siege now, but your idea won't change much IMO. It's overcomplicated and have too many loopholes for even considering it. As Vatas said - will just get back to legacy bunkers/vaults, that will be used for messing around. Or... There is fight coming? You want to steal something? KO someone? You just leave the village and rejoin it after crime. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


That's a good point, need consider what to do in such situation
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby MrBunzy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:10 pm

Your idea seems overly complex and unintuitive, and many of the mechanics are quite prone to abuse. The whole concept of scents making claims vulnerable is flawed, because there are plenty of ways to grief people without leaving a single scent. Having game mechanics to enforce some sense of 'justice' really won't work in a sandbox game like this, in my opinion 'justice' should be left entirely up to the players discretion.

Anyway, I don't think the mechanics of siege itself is that bad in the current state. What really needs to be fixed to make siege exist is more incentives to actually commit to it. In the context of large factions, siege is almost meaningless and there is almost nothing in the game that can't be easily teleported elsewhere or replaced. Make it so that the more important crafting stations like anvils and potter's wheels arn't lift-able, or so that coronation stones cant be instantly rebuilt, or so that characters cant move their hearth fires to other villages wile outlawed, or anything that gives a space in the game some value worth fighting over, and I think you would see sieges occur even with the current jankey mechanics.
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby stya » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:12 pm

Convoluted, easily abusable, makes little sense?

XP Is extremely badly spread among players and easier to get for realm owners, tying it to some claim "challenge" sounds like going in the wrong direction.
Not being able to move liftables out is just nonsense, 48h is a lot, almost everything is liftable in the game... How do you even make the difference between someone vaulting a liftable and someone stealing it?

Your tweak just does not work, you can permanently live in a village that is not "yours" using party pemissions/pclaims/etc..

It would also kind of incentivise passive aggressive griefing to force people to leave scents.

Overall low quality grab bag thread, please no.
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby xzo » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:42 pm

I would rather be able to throw a challenge at the village, does not matter if crimes were committed or not, your just see the random village, boom throwing the challenge

now few requirements and example numbers to make it reasonable

- you need to be member of a village
- if you throw the challenge you get a timer for 2 real time days, after this time all siege engines will dry up 4 times faster before they are ready to be used, and that will last for 12 hours
- as a village lawspeaker you can shield your village for 2 rl weeks, but if you do it, you cannot repeat it for for next 2 months ( so people can go for holidays or something )
- if you are already challenged you can extend the challenge once, by 1-3 days but you cannot shield your village
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Re: The best siege idea you have ever heard

Postby shubla » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:09 pm

Remove siege completely.
Easy and quick fix to devs wasting too much time on something that is impossible to implement in a fair way.
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