How to make the winter interesting: A guide for Jorbtar

[Noid]

I've recently caught rumors about a new alchemy system being developed, the next BIG thing, but at the cost of ruining the mood I wonder why not spending some time to polish what is already in the game rather than throw in more incomplete content?

First thing that comes to my mind is the winter and how much potential is there to make it better. So I decided to write this guide down as a starting point to make winter great again:

1) Restore the original length of the season. Everybody loves the winter, what people hate is the 3 days of snow showering messing the map without being able to use the sled and of course the lack of content, not the winter itself.

2) Add a cold weather system similar to hunger - Everybody that didn't experience winter in the game is expecting to face some challenges in this season. N.B. Not having much to do doesn't count as challenge.

2b) Add a bar for the temperature that starts draining when you're out a certain range from a fire source. When the bar reaches 0 you start getting a "freezing to death" wound (similar to starving) with hp loss. This wound recovers quickly when you're back nearby a fire source but over certain amount of "freezing to death" ticks there's a chance to get a "cold". Cold is a more punishing wound that requires longer resting time in the bed, with a medicine to speed up the process.

- Fire sources are: campfires, braziers, industry stations like ovens, kilns also should provide warmth
- Staying inside buildings obviously prevent freezing (consider in the future to add a fireplace to activate the cold protection)
- Bonfires have a larger warm radius, to cover bigger areas in villages

3) Make some recipes or add new ones that give "cold weather resistance":

Recipes ideas:
- Chicken soup
- Mama noodles
- Gluehwein (German Hot Wine Punch)

4) Add a "cold weather resistance" value to some wintery clothes. Just like the swimming bonus, it should slow down the draining of the warmth bar. We already have the coats, parkas and so on... It could be nice to give a sense to the type of clothes you're wearing. Don't forget the hats.

5) Add one new rare creature (to begin with) so that people will have a reason to go out hunting for it even if it means facing the risk of freezing to death. The hunting out in the cold can always be stretched by stopping to build a campfire and restore the warmth, as much being a risk to get caught (by animals or players) and not being able to run away due to the risk of freezing.

Creature ideas:
- White bear
- Abominable snowman
- Snow Leopard

6) Add a chance to spawn bears inside the caves in a passive state. When passive, the bears won't aggro until attacked or if the player gets extremely close to them.

7) Add one rare herb (to begin with) worth the effort to go out, like a chiming bluebell of the winter, just like the one you added but with a high tier LP gain.

8) Speed up the energy bar draining so people have to eat more and prepare for the winter by saving the food along with the wood to keep them fed and warm.

9) Add one localized resource (to begin with) that only activates in the winter.

[mvgulik]

I wonder why not spending some time to polish what is already in the game rather than throw in more incomplete content?

Simple economics 101 (polishing stuff can take the same amount of time (if not more) as creating new content. But gives only a fraction of the perceived result/payback).
And Human nature (as in new-content generally always floats up, above polishing (minor) stuff, in any to-do list) (the first is more interesting vs the latter more boring parts)

Anyway ... just in case. Neither should be taken as a reason not to make suggestions of course. (skipping suggestion part myself. No time, Full plate, ... etc)

[Apocoreo]

Winter shouldn't be harder to start in as it would discourage new players, but it should not be easier or the same as that would bore veterans. I would suggest adding a buff similar to baby blue eyes in.

Heat of the Hearth
The fire that burned you into this would yet flares within you. You are protected from the biting cold and stinging wind. But you sense the embers are fading...

This lasts for one full ingame year regardless of when you spawn.

Great ideas, but I would like more than 1 thing for each industry for winter, if anything I would like to see winter become the most valuable season, but also the most risky (due to cold).

A big issue left unaddressed is that farmers have little to do in the winter. Many play dedicated farmer's because that's what they enjoy in the game. We need either winter crops or a minigame mechanically similar and using either farming stats or none at all to keep them occupied. Perhaps a snow-shovelling minigame where you can pack the snow into structures and sculptures that provide village wide benefits? Hmmm, maybe I'll mull over that last bit and make a separate thread.

[Noid]

I wonder why not spending some time to polish what is already in the game rather than throw in more incomplete content?

Simple economics 101 (polishing stuff can take the same amount of time (if not more) as creating new content. But gives only a fraction of the perceived result/payback).
And Human nature (as in new-content generally always floats up, above polishing (minor) stuff, in any to-do list) (the first is more interesting vs the latter more boring parts)

Anyway ... just in case. Neither should be taken as a reason not to make suggestions of course. (skipping suggestion part myself. No time, Full plate, ... etc)

So why am I complaining of the opposite? I am not a superior mind

Also the type of "polishing" described in my guide comes with a bunch of new stuff that I'm pretty sure can work quite well with the strategy approach you mentioned anyway. But in this case they would go to fill and complete a gap in the current gameplay rather than adding another gameplay with more gaps to fill!

[Noid]

Winter shouldn't be harder to start in as it would discourage new players, but it should not be easier or the same as that would bore veterans. I would suggest adding a buff similar to baby blue eyes in.

Heat of the Hearth
The fire that burned you into this would yet flares within you. You are protected from the biting cold and stinging wind. But you sense the embers are fading...

This lasts for one full ingame year regardless of when you spawn.

Great ideas, but I would like more than 1 thing for each industry for winter, if anything I would like to see winter become the most valuable season, but also the most risky (due to cold).

A big issue left unaddressed is that farmers have little to do in the winter. Many play dedicated farmer's because that's what they enjoy in the game. We need either winter crops or a minigame mechanically similar and using either farming stats or none at all to keep them occupied. Perhaps a snow-shovelling minigame where you can pack the snow into structures and sculptures that provide village wide benefits? Hmmm, maybe I'll mull over that last bit and make a separate thread.

Hi Apocoreo,

Thanks for your feedback.

While I understand what you say in regard of making it easier for new players, I don’t think having an easier/harder winter season won’t change how punishing the game is anyway to all players (old and new). Not mentioning the fact that I don’t believe the devs are interested in this matter at all

I think a one year lasting buff would be too easy and easily exploitable by the "advanced" players. I would rather have a better way in game to guide you through the experience, without taking away the "hard survival" factor which in general adds challenge and uniqueness to this game.

For example there could be a message introducing the new seasons, in the form of the existing experience banners. When autumn kicks in, write a fancy message about the feeling to start preparing for the winter and save your energy/wood kind of thing. Something like that and the common knowledge about winter should be enough to take action. If you don't, well you may want to start looking into Farmville...

I also like the idea of adding a mini game to keep farmers busy during winter, which indeed I didn't consider in my guide. This suggestion could work in combination with the request I saw around of a better snow clearing mechanic. If you have further thoughts on how it could work, would be nice to see it added to this thread so to keep all the ideas together.

[Apocoreo]

Not suggesting any change to the overall difficulty, just a temporary mercy for new players spawning. Considering they recently added a help menu, the newish addition of a tutorial, and Baby Blue Eyes, a now-defunct but similar feature, I think Jorb and Loftar would be receptive to this idea.

The cold as it stands would primarily be a difficulty hurdle for new players, particularly those blindly starting the game in the dead of winter. That is a discouraging factor for picking up the game permanently therefore a drain on the game's income. Veterans will have the industry ready in time to create cold weather clothing/resistance items regardless if they know what's coming, creating an interesting challenge for them.

Perhaps the buff could confer a cold resistance rather than immunity? If they go all winter with no precautions they will die, but they have adequate time to explore their spawn zone, get used to the game (especially the cold mechanics), and cloth themselves before they meet a death they don't at least somewhat understand.

I don't see how that's exploitable though. True these new characters would be able to wear superior armor without the loss of cold resistance, but as these are new spawns they would be at a significant stat disadvantage, even on inheriting. Plus, any veteran player worth their salt-basins will likely be travelling with cold resistance items, material to make heat sources, even a change of armor to don just before blades clash.

Your message idea is excellent. A hearthling should be able to feel the temperature change. In Amber's client, I can see how many days it is until the season's shift. I find this unimmersive and all too easy. Perhaps an element of RNG should be added to the seasons change, with the season shifting on any 1 of 7 days at the end of the previous season. The message could be received on day 1, providing a nasty surprise for the unprepared and unlucky.

Glad you like the idea! I'll type something up soon.

[jordancoles]

Looks like a great system for making me log out the second winter starts and maybe logging back on again in the spring

[Apocoreo]

Looks like a great system for making me log out the second winter starts and maybe logging back on again in the spring

The does lend itself to an interesting effect on warfare. It is traditional that war stops in winter, leading many commander's throughout history to attempt attacks during winter, in the hopes the enemy can't reinforce positions. If your village goes inactive because of the cold, perhaps your rivals will brave it for the chance at finally taking your shit. This will be limited because of how lacking siege currently is but fuck it we need more compelling battles anyway.

If you have further thoughts on how it could work, would be nice to see it added to this thread so to keep all the ideas together.

Earlier in this thread I suggested the addition of an alternative to farming for the winter month. OP and requested I post the idea here to keep winter ideas together (and I didn't want to doublepost). Long have I suggested the addition of fantasy winter crops, to mixed reaction due to the lack of realism. Well art and religion has its place in the hearthlands in the form of symbel and curiosities, therefore I would like to suggest farmer's practice the arts throughout the winter, in the form of snow and ice sculpting.

To clarify why we actually need this change, there are people who play this game exclusively for one job or mechanic, that's just what they like. To secure these players and their potential financial support of the game we need to maintain their interest. Personally, I hate farming in this game, especially silkfarming, but I see people who enjoy it and their playstyle should be supported as much as a miner, cook, or pvper. To that end, any alternative to farming must be mechanically identical or similar to farming.

Step one: shovelling snow should be similar to planting/harvesting. Perhaps with a shovel held in the cursor, or a unique shovel snow button you can click and drag to dig a large area of snow. The means isn't really as important as the function to mass-shovel snow. Snow dug this way could be automatically added to a stockpile.

A new item called a Snow Shovel, made with metal. Rather than simply digging snow faster, they could move snow stockpiles similar to a wheelbarrow, but with the added functionality of picking up and snow still on the ground and adding it to the stockpile until it is full. Fuck knows I've done this plenty on my real life driveway.

When attempting to add snow to an already full stockpile, you will still receive the error message of the stockpile being full, but also receive a pop-up option to "Pack" or "Sinter" the snow. Selecting this options will turn the stockpile into a "Snow Mound", which can hold significantly more snow than a stockpile, but cannot be moved by any means. The more snow you add, the larger the mound gets.

As these are meant to take up significant space, this makes the empty fields the ideal place for them. Over time, the snow will "pack", snow is converted to "snow blocks", "packed snow", or "hard snow", and "ice blocks" or "packed ice". The more the snow, faster the process. Should irrigation/watering be added to farming, these process should be significantly slowed down, but sped up when water is added to the mound, similar to how ice castles are build in real life.

Using a pick, or maybe a special "ice pick" that also speeds up hacking ice out of lakes and rivers, the farmer can remove ice and snow blocks from mounds. They do not have any reliable means to see how many of which blocks is ready, they simply must test it out and learn over time, or check the wiki like with crops.

This is where the farming skill comes in, affecting the quality of the block. Why Farming? Mostly because it needs to be an alternative to farming. You could rp justify it with a patience to watch resources develop and the knowledge to harvest at just the right time to attain the desired product.

Here's where I need help: I need more ideas for what these blocks actually do.

Snow blocks could be used build Igloo's (or lumitalo if you want to sound more scandinavian), temporary safe homes for your character and items that also provide heat (snow is an excellent insulator). These could last until the end of winter and require siege to destroy while someone is inside.

Perhaps they could also be used to build snow walls, which go up fast, are cheap block-wise but can be handbashed. These you allow villages to create temporary bases for sieges and localized resources, maybe even meteors, that slow enemies down rather than offering any real protection. Similar to fences but tougher.

For those two to be viable perhaps Snow Blocks should be stackable in inventory to a point.

Ice blocks could replace the ones we mine from frozen lakes and rivers. Tbh it makes a little more sense than getting that huge block out of the frozen surface of running water.

Regardless, they could also be use to carve ice sculptures which provide village-wide buffs. similar to realm buff but lasting only through winter. Sculptures could begin to melt before winter's end too. The possibilities for buffs are endless so I'll save ya'll a book and instead suggest that the buffs could only relate to winter, increasing cold resistance with the village as a whole, temporary insulating villagers after they leave the claim, expanding the range of heat sources, etc. Sculptures could be anything from animals to hearthlings, whatever matches the style of the game.

[jordancoles]

Looks like a great system for making me log out the second winter starts and maybe logging back on again in the spring

The does lend itself to an interesting effect on warfare. It is traditional that war stops in winter, leading many commander's throughout history to attempt attacks during winter, in the hopes the enemy can't reinforce positions. If your village goes inactive because of the cold, perhaps your rivals will brave it for the chance at finally taking your shit. This will be limited because of how lacking siege currently is but fuck it we need more compelling battles anyway.

Every winter players would drop off and never return and if it played out the way you're saying with siege, then even the big bois would leave

[Darruin]

I definitely agree that winter should be 10 days again. It seemed like a cop-out that they simply reduced the length because; Jorb: "in its present state Winter removes too much content from the game to be enjoyable for 10 days". To me, it seems like the best solution is to add some kind of exclusive content to winter and giving it more purpose, rather than turning a not finished 10 day season into a not finished 5 day season.

I don't agree that there should be a cold mechanic, that doesn't sound fun. Hibernating bears does sound fun though.