Discussion: Removed spiraling

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Discussion: Removed spiraling

Postby Fostik » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:51 am

Just wanted to start open discussion about spiraling removal.
I think this mechanic was the core of all endgame playing and trading in all previous worlds. Together with crop cap it creates the most boring world, at the current state there are many markets dead, lowest online for all worlds for that period.
For my opinion, willing to limit some player features and mechanics just led game to the stage of 8 world, when despite on every mechanics and content, there is nothing to do.
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Re: Discussion: Removed spiraling

Postby vatas » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:05 am

It was nice that any crappy cast iron anybody could make had high-end trade value, but it came with downsides.

Metal qualities rose to absurd values, I had to tell my friend that he's essentially wasting metal by making wrought himself compared to trading the cast iron to high-end player for their "trash" wrought.

Not sure which one outweighs the other.
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Re: Discussion: Removed spiraling

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:51 am

Spiraling sucked dick and the only people who liked it were
a) Poor eastern europeans that could make a stable salary off of it
b) People whose idea of a good game is spending 10 hours mining cast iron to buy 1 piece of first spiral wrought off of some bot farmer that drops thousands of wrought double that quality on the ground every day
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Re: Discussion: Removed spiraling

Postby Fostik » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:32 am

a) Poor eastern europeans that could make a stable salary off of it

Let's be honest, RL trades is only very small part of great ingame economics influence which was created by spiraling, it fed the markets and created bridge between noobs and well developed players.
By focusing on RL trades and botting only you cant see the full picture of advantages of this mechanic. Anyway, you can always see a reverse picture of absence of that mechanic, or any analog - it's closed markets and low online.
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Re: Discussion: Removed spiraling

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:48 am

I feel like you're taking eastern europeans making their living off of a highQ anvil is a joke. It's not.
Also, thinking it creates a bridge between high end and low end players is kinda retarded. The top Anvil world 10 was probably 3k+ higher than you believe it was based on markets. The divide between the top autists and the average player was the biggest it had ever been during my play time. Nowadays it's pretty fucking reasonable for some random semi-casual village to have near top industry, as long as they've some ties to a group that can win meteors.

So, with regards to trade, even if you can't get something interesting to the people with the tippy-top industry(((which you can btw))), the person with the second, third, or tenth best anvil can still make you actually good stuff compared to what the guy with the topQ anvil will make you.

I'm pretty sure the only difference you're experiencing as a bottom of the food chain player that wants to trade is that the answer to "what do I use to trade" isn't unequivocally bulk cast. You might need to think for 10 seconds, or ask relevant people what they want, instead of carting 10s of cupboards of cast to a barter stand in CF once a week to rebuy the worst saw/axe anvil spirelers could intentionally make lowQ.
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Re: Discussion: Removed spiraling

Postby MagicManICT » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:48 pm

Spiraling was a big deal in the early development of Haven because all metal (iron only) was q10 when mined. I my memory is close to correct, the grand accomplishment of w3 was q120 or so clay kiln.

Do we need it now? No idea, no strong opinion. it's an interesting game mechanic for sure, but it has created a bit of the "idle number grinder" attitude in some players.

To be fair, most MMOs come down to this type mechanic at some level, whether its with faction grinding, raiding, battlegrounds, etc. to min/max your character's attributes. Most cap progression either with a fixed level or a very heavily penalty after reaching some point. (I actually can't name a single MMO other than Haven that doesn't have some sort of attribute and skills capping, along with the quality of gear you can get.)
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