Drain kingdom authority from knocks

[Fostik]

If a member of kingdom knocks another player in the territory of this kingdom, this kingdom should lose authority.

[DDDsDD999]

Would be really funny to abuse, +1

[SnuggleSnail]

this is why nobody's opinion except mine matters

[Fostik]

It was obvious that you guys will come and argue about this, because you represent the side interested to not being fined for such actions.
But you know what, there are always two sides, and if only one side is heard in that case, game will look like arcade pvp slasher (sic! noone will come and play it)

I, who represent peaceful players there, demand kingdoms to have penalties for their bloody politics against their population.

[Zentetsuken]

It was obvious that you guys will come and argue about this, because you represent the side interested to not being fined for such actions.
But you know what, there are always two sides, and if only one side is heard in that case, game will look like arcade pvp slasher (sic! noone will come and play it)

I, who represent peaceful players there, demand kingdoms to have penalties for their bloody politics against their population.

As a total third party to kingdom politics and semantics, I don't see why anybody would suggest this beyond attempting to bully Snail.

It simply doesn't make sense, kingdoms are inherently and historically authoritative and bloody politics have been known to literally BOOST the authority of a ruler and its geopolitical presence in the world.

I think at this point, any kingdom/realm related suggestions beyond "remove them" is a lost cause.

[Amanda44]

I had a conversation with Jorb a few weeks back about this very issue, I also think that realms need to depend more on their subjects and should face consequences for their actions towards their population, both good and bad and with authority drain being connected to this. He agreed that changes need, and will be, made to realms and asked for suggestions ... I spent an entire day and night thinking about it and as the others have said, could come up with nothing that was feasible, mainly because of the potential for abuse from members of opposing realms. I ended up telling him that I was glad I'm not a games developer!

this is why nobody's opinion except mine matters

So what suggestions would you have to make realms more dependent on keeping their subjects safe and happy?

I like the idea of realms and don't really want to see them abolished, I agree that in rl realms are historically often brutal towards their lower class citizens but this is a game setting and realms should benefit all, otherwise there really is no point to them other than giving the current megalomaniac carte blanche over the worlds population.

[SnuggleSnail]

It is my very firm opinion that from a PVP/competition perspective realms cannot be balanced to be either fun, or difficult to abuse. It is also my very firm opinion that trying to rework realms instead of trying to fix one of the other unfun things that will have a direct impact on many, many more people(credos, quality farming, meteorites) is an extremely misguided use of time.

The obvious solution is to just gut realm buffs/from the public coffer/blocking claims with cairns so that it stops influencing PVP/competition, and let it just be a larpy realm chat room. Only larpers want to interact with realms in the spirit of the way Jorb seems to intend, and only PVPers/autists are really capable of interacting with it in a way that is effective. I think trying to mix these crowds by attaching straight up mandatory buffs to realms will always yield negative results.

So what suggestions would you have to make realms more dependent on keeping their subjects safe and happy?

Anything you do that makes the people a valuable resource is going to be horrible for them. Defending people that are bad enough to need defense is nearly impossible, and giving people a vested interest in messing with them is going to have obvious results. OP's suggestion already exists in game in the least mechanically exploitable way. If the people in a realm get KOed/killed enough they will quit or move. People who quit or moved don't generate authority anymore, which is the same thing, except I can't use my KoA char to bot KO fresh alts.


I would also argue your realm ruler not caring about you(pro tip: no ruler has ever cared about any of you on the basis of you living in their realm) isn't bad. When you're getting raided does it matter to you which realm the raider is associated with? I rly doubt it. What would suck is getting claimed by a shitter realm that's never going to give you the buffs you need to have competitive industry, participate in the market, or even PVP in the case of marriage of the sea. I feel very sorry for the people who got stuck in PP:UP:, NS, or WW prior to their destruction. Also, somewhat for KoA people since they have almost no monoliths, and will never have good buffs as a result. Even if you don't care about any of that, honestly, being in a small realm with a dead realm chat as you're doing your daily chores sucks.

[MagicManICT]

Anything you do that makes the people a valuable resource is going to be horrible for them.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. If an active character is worth a given value, then others will try to steal it. If they cannot steal it, then they will destroy it. And people are more likely to quit than to move in my experience. Moving in Haven is too difficult. There's too much reliance on fixed infrastructure--kilns, smelters, ovens, trees, etc etc. I think the "public utilities" have been helpful in fixing that part of the game, but it just isn't enough.

honestly, being in a small realm with a dead realm chat as you're doing your daily chores sucks.

I honestly would rather just hang out in Discord chat... and I hate Discord almost as much as I hate Facebook. (We just don't know how badly Discord is abusing their users for their "free service.")

[Pickard]

... game will look like arcade pvp slasher (sic! noone will come and play it)

LOL
What are you talking about? Haven has no pvp.
Try albion online, you will meet gankers every 5-10 min, and - surprise! - over 100k daily online, maybe more.

[Amanda44]

@ Snail ... Yep, that's pretty much the same conclusions I came to. I guess I was hoping that given your experience and knowledge of realm mechanics you may have some insight that I missed which would enable the changes.

Maybe Zentetsuken is right and it would be better to just remove realms altogether.

Thanks though for your response.

Just one other thing I wanted to say ...

When you're getting raided does it matter to you which realm the raider is associated with?

On one level then no, at the time all that matters is that you are getting raided but on another level, I, personally, do feel that it is worse to be raided by the leaders of the realm you live in and contribute towards (with authority and with your presence) than by someone else. Providing ofc that you have not done something to warrant it. I've heard enough from other players who also share this feeling to know I'm not alone in how I look at it. I guess I feel there should be some kind of loyalty towards the people that enable you to have a successful realm.

Saying that ... I just want to point out that I am aware that the use of botting, heavy questing and some other practises severely lowers the need for actual active players. And that the rulers don't care about the people living in the realm is not a good thing either and part of what makes ppl want the realm mechanics changed.

Btw, I did care about the ppl in my realms ... when I formed RecoNKuista it was at the end of a world, I took over what was left of NK after it was raided - in doing so I obviously had to destroy border cairns and left over idols and menhirs, the players living there were naturally upset at losing what little bonuses they had left despite me telling them that I would replace them. I went all out with trade, borrowing and begging to give them back full realm bonuses at great cost to myself purely because I cared.
Previously when I had Deka, I formed that realm as a safe haven for new players and players that wanted to return after being raided, I spoke to the other realm leaders and asked for them to leave the realm alone in return for me not trying to expand into their territories or causing any problems to them. Not only did they agree but I got a lot of help from certain players in AD and Dis with the planning of the realm and materials for the new and returning players. I had players actually move from other realms to come and live there. So, not all realm leaders are the same.