Drain kingdom authority from knocks

[AntiBlitz]

perhaps realms should be linked to village idols rather then individuals and their doings. So that a village may "check a box, to rebel, and send no authority to its kingdom. Maybe the fire from the eyes of the idol changes or something, idk. I just think that realms should be substantially more interactive then they currently are.

[SnuggleSnail]

So, what, the meta becomes talking in realm chat about pedophilia being okay and killing nabs while impersonating other groups? There's enough of that without there being a mechanical incentive to do so.

[Agrik]

If a member of kingdom knocks another player in the territory of this kingdom, this kingdom should lose authority.

Would be really funny to abuse, +1

Maybe an additional group can help, something like "citizens". So the suggested game mechanics will count KOs only for that manually filtered group of players.

And then we'll have to create reasons for kingdoms to give citizenship to its inhabitants, at least to a noticeable part of them. Maybe boost the authority gain from citizens, maybe cut it significantly for others.

bloody politics have been known to literally BOOST the authority of a ruler and its geopolitical presence in the world.

Maybe there is a bit of misunderstanding, I don't think the "authority" parameter in the game means real "authority" in the sense of entitlement to employ violence. It seems to be closer to a some kind of "resourcefulness" or "well-being", based on the way it generates.

And injuries and deaths don't increase resources, even when they're used to retain authority.

[SnuggleSnail]

there's like 12 other reasons that's a really stupid idea that can't be summarized in one sentence, but have you considered that there's no need for a group who owns a realm to have all their fighters oathed to that realm.

I think if somebody can find a way to completely circumvent your suggested mechanic in less than 5 seconds you're not qualified to have an opinion.

[Fostik]

Actually, no matter how and in which way this idea will be implemented.
There is just a need in some type of bridge between citizens of kingdoms, and it's leaders.

- Authority penalties for murdering inside kingdom
- Denial of participation in kingdom configured by village idol offered by AntiBlitz
- Signal/debuff that will show amount of knocks/active war of current kingdom, so people will not settle in bad places.

Any ideas can be developed into working mechanic by discussing and devs consideration, no need to rush to condemn a raw idea just because you see some contradictions or abuse.

[SnuggleSnail]

There is a pretty unanimous consensus between everybody who interacts with realms in a significant way that there's no reasonable way to balance them under normal conditions, and you want to add another factor to it of having to care about the plebs for some reason that makes it x100 harder to balance.

Moreover, realms are a mechanic less than 1% of the playerbase actually interacts with in a significant way, and you people are pushing for dev time/thought to be spent on it instead of something meaningful. Also, as pointed out above, there is already a version of what you're suggesting in the game. If you make people quit/move, they don't give you authority.

I think people who have absolutely no idea how something works discussing how to fix it just makes things harder. You get a lot less work done when the room is full of noisey retards that you either need to correct or ignore. If you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about don't say anything. I see this kind of behavior as being extremely selfish and entitled.

Amanda apparently wanted a peasfool realm with community building aspects, and you know what she did? Figure out how realms work, and made one. I bet she didn't spam C&I threads explaining to Jorb how he can give her what she wants while not putting forth any effort to understand the implications of what she's asking for, like you.

Be more like Amanda. If you want a peaceful realm learn how they work and fight me to the death to make one

[Agrik]

have you considered that there's no need for a group who owns a realm to have all their fighters oathed to that realm.

Yes, but it looks unrelated. Surely there can be unmarked fighters acting for any side, but the idea is about citizenship being required for victims of KO, not for dealers, as the base idea was centered on victims, as I understand it. Though maybe unmarked fighters should be denied some realm buffs that are useful for fighting, so there would be an incentive to give them citizenship.

So I don't get what you imagine as the intended purpose when you talk about circumventing.

I think if somebody can find a way to completely circumvent your suggested mechanic in less than 5 seconds you're not qualified to have an opinion.

It's not an opinion, it's an idea. And an idea can't be disqualified without counterarguments.

There is a pretty unanimous consensus between everybody who interacts with realms in a significant way that there's no reasonable way to balance them under normal conditions

Are these people include any one game designer of H&H?

[SnuggleSnail]

ok so, consider that the point of the citizen class is that they're randoms the realm otherwise wouldn't give a shit about. So they're people the realm doesn't know or trust. PRESUMABLY, if this is the case it would be easy as frick to get one or many characters with the citizen role, even if you're an enemy realm with malicious intent. If them KOing these characters all day every day, or whenever the cooldown ends doesn't destroy the realm, then the entire mechanic is pointless because realm owners still have no reason to give a shit. If it does destroy the realm, then excellent there will just be no realms because of how easy it is to destroy them. Either way, there would be a pretty big incentive to go fuck up random hermits in each other's realm, which is a great side effect. If there is no citizen class then it's the same thing, except you can skip the step of asking sveta to be made a citizen.



If you have cancer and a doctor tells you that you've to take some medicine, but your aunt who dropped out of high school tells you to ignore the doctor and you need to buy healing stones... It's a waste of the doctor's time for him to have to fully explain the results of using healing stones, and how you'll die. Especially if after he does that, your aunt can just say "well, if healing stones wasn't a good idea, maybe healing crystals?" Me saying your ideas are garbage, and you're not helping if you've never been involved in a realm at all is not elitist gatekeeping. It's saying you should know SOMETHING AT ALL about the subject matter before making assertions about it, and if you don't you're wasting everybody's time.



I rly doubt Jorb and Loftar have interacted with realms in a significant way as players

[Agrik]

ok so, consider that the point of the citizen class is that they're randoms the realm otherwise wouldn't give a shit about. So they're people the realm doesn't know or trust.

So you get to know them before you sign a contract. The citizenship isn't supposed to be given to everyone at random (it's a white list, after all), but to chosen people.

PRESUMABLY, if this is the case it would be easy as frick to get one

You've got a point here. There is a need for a way to find the source of the drain, hierarchically (who is a vassal to whom) or territorially (in the region of which cairn it happened) or probably both. Then hierarchy may help to "switch off" a whole group of citizens temporarily for a check without destroying all the connections.

Summarizing these two aspects... you aren't likely to know and invite each hermit personally, yep, because that's not how kingdoms work. But I suppose you know some people you can relatively trust, so you can appoint them as "regional governors" to count as citizens the people they appointed, as long as the governor keeps his position. Then governors are likely would get to know and negotiate with villages, passing the right to appoint further to the lawspeakers they find reasonable. Or the king/queen may choose to contact villages directly, depending on the size of the ream. The lawspeakers then choose a subgroup from the village and any hermits they feel being more useful than harmful.

If them KOing these characters all day every day, or whenever the cooldown ends

A limit would be reasonable. I can think of diminishing returns or a plain limit somehow based on the authority the character already gave the realm. At the very least, nobody would take more than they gave, but as most of it would likely be spent already, it may be better to set only a fraction.

there would be a pretty big incentive to go fuck up random hermits in each other's realm, which is a great side effect.

At least there would be a way for them. On the other side, the realm would be interested in granting citizenships too, to raise authority income, as long as hermit aren't going to fall every now and then.

If you have cancer and a doctor tells you that you've to take some medicine, but your aunt who dropped out of high school tells you to ignore the doctor and you need to buy healing stones... It's a waste of the doctor's time for him to have to fully explain the results of using healing stones, and how you'll die.

It depends on what is the doctor's purpose, to sit proud of his knowledge or to achieve results. If the doctor has other patients to save by actions, it's perfectly fine to spend time so. If not, I'm not sure what's the reason to deny explanations.

Though the example compares quite an arguable matter of a game design to an exaggerated case of established truth and untruth.

Me saying your ideas are garbage, and you're not helping if you've never been involved in a realm at all is not elitist gatekeeping.

I may be wrong about H&H realms because of no experience, so I do value your opinion on that matter, but please take no offence, I don't see you being experienced in designing the H&H to judge who is to have a say about it. There are loftar and jorb for that. Even if they're inexperienced in the matter of realms, it's their game project and their decision how it should look like.

[SnuggleSnail]

well, if healing stones wasn't a good idea, maybe healing crystals?

Maybe if you and Zunzon are so concerned with being valued by your rulers, instead of demanding Jorb rework the entire realm system to be even more cancer you could just... Ingratiate yourself with them, and provide some value through conventional means...