Can we discuss quest givers?

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby Nightdawg » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:49 pm

Haven and Hearth is an MMO, with some really unique mechanics such as being able to lose your character forever, claiming land and making it unavailable from other players, shaping the world, etc.
There aren't any other MMOs (that I know of) with these mechanics, so this can be used as an argument, but can we do something about letting other people have control over us failing quests (without making any mistakes)?

So far, quest givers are chopped/chipped/killed if:
- Someone decides to settle somewhere, so they terraform and clear the area (quest givers die by mistake, the person who does it loses nothing while everyone else fail the current quests)
- Someone decides to go around simply chopping them (ill intent, they lose nothing while everyone else who is doing quests there lose all of their quests)
- Someone claims an area and doesn't clear it (quest givers get obstructed from everyone else)
- Someone claims a quest giver on purpose, to close them off from the rest of the players (ill intent, they lose nothing while people doing quests there can't complete quests that require interaction with said quest giver)

You can also just spawn naked alts and go around killing the first quest givers you get, indefinitely.

I think haven and hearth is the only game in which someone else has control over MY quests.

Here's my suggestion:

Instead of trees, stumps and boulders, how about something like ghosts/spirits of our ancestors?

Ancestor ghosts/spirits
- They can be transparent hearthlings with random clothes, with a white shader applied to them, or some ghost beings like nidbanes, or whatever pleases you jorb.
- They are not stationary, they *appear* near you once you go near the general area in which their ghost/spirit resides (idk, like 1-2 minimaps from a center tile?). If the area they're in gets claimed, their *center* should jump outside of the claim. This way, they won't get blocked behind claims, they can't be cut down, and you can interact with them since they appear near you.
- They will only appear if you have to interact with them or have unfinished quests from them. (so you don't get randomly spooked when you're running around).
- They have no collision box, you can walk through them.
- Only YOU can see the spirit that YOU spawn. As long as the spirit is inside the area of interaction , every player can interact in a different position with the ancestor spirit. The spirit is spawned client-side, so only the player that needs to interact with it can see it (wherever they entered the area and spawned it).
- You can keep the same list of names currently given to trees/stumps/boulders.

Let's discuss please :D
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby Zentetsuken » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:07 pm

this game has deep roots in griefing and pvp
griefing is the foundation that this game was built on
quests are not necessary, in fact, they are pretty fucking useless unless you have titan stats, a village catering to your eating and curio needs and you no-life them
so basically, getting upset about losing a quest is white upperclass realm pvper priviledge, for anybody else it doesn't actually effect your ability to progress and doesn't effect your gameplay beyond the irritation of knowing that somebody actually did it

I honestly like the fact that QGs can be destroyed, claimed or fucked with in general

I think the idea has been thrown around that these actions could come at a cost of sorts

Like you should definitely be able to chop down wild crazy stump spirit, but perhaps such an action could result in a debuff or some chance at a negative consequence

or maybe just remove quests entirely because dumb
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby Zapt13 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:04 pm

In my village it was common for someone to ask the group if anyone knew the location of <xxxxx> questgiver. If the journey required a boat, could be reached via horse, etc. I like the possibility of synergy, here. I also came upon roads marked "Road to <xxxxx>", for example. You did a good job listing the risks of the present questgiver system, but you did not outline any benefits you wish to see retained.
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby Nightdawg » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:22 pm

Zentetsuken wrote:this game has deep roots in griefing and pvp
griefing is the foundation that this game was built on

I wouldn't say the game is entirely built on griefing and pvp. We have dungeons and so many things that are not mandatory for pvp, LARP stuff, etc.
Also I'm pretty sure loftar wants us to also have options against griefing:
viewtopic.php?p=581078#p581078
His main motive for no disabled PvP is basically to stop griefing. PvP can be a tool against the griefing ways he mentioned in that thread, though not so much against chopped quest givers that require 0 stats and 0 LP.

Zentetsuken wrote:quests are not necessary, in fact, they are pretty fucking useless unless you have titan stats, a village catering to your eating and curio needs and you no-life them
so basically, getting upset about losing a quest is white upperclass realm pvper priviledge, for anybody else it doesn't actually effect your ability to progress and doesn't effect your gameplay beyond the irritation of knowing that somebody actually did it

But this would mean that titans get to snowball faster if we don't quest at all. I'm not saying everyone should quest or that it is mandatory to quest. I know titans that quested, and titans that didn't quest at all. I myself did a significant amount of quests, but I was not a titan. However, I had some decent stats for someone who wasn't part of a power-gamer group or a village of 30+ people.
I don't think anyone actually grinds food and curios specifically for titans to just consume. So far all of the PvPers I talked to did all the grinding for themselves, curios and food, I won't name names. At the same time, all of them stressed how important it is to have higher quality tools and work stations, and how it increased the rate at which their stats increased. I was part of a small village, and had lower quality tools/food/curiosities compared to them, but questing helped me boost my stats to some more decent numbers. It can also be somewhat relaxing, you get to run around the continent and deliver random crap to trees, kill animals, etc.

Zentetsuken wrote:I think the idea has been thrown around that these actions could come at a cost of sorts
Like you should definitely be able to chop down wild crazy stump spirit, but perhaps such an action could result in a debuff or some chance at a negative consequence

I've heard of those ideas too, but you would either chop them by mistake, or use alts for it.


Zapt13 wrote:In my village it was common for someone to ask the group if anyone knew the location of <xxxxx> questgiver. If the journey required a boat, could be reached via horse, etc. I like the possibility of synergy, here. I also came upon roads marked "Road to <xxxxx>", for example. You did a good job listing the risks of the present questgiver system, but you did not outline any benefits you wish to see retained.


I might have not been specific enough when I said "general area in which a quest giver spawns". Roads to <xxxxx> questgivers would still be a thing, it's just that they wouldn't be stationary on a single tile, but rather could be accessed from around that area. I quested on the entire continent I was on, I did 11 credos including nomad, and had other village members that quested or did credos, so I understand what you're talking about. But I don't think this synergy would be broken.
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby insanechef » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:02 pm

I like the spirit idea it feels like a good mechanic maybe they could even possess other objects

If a quest giver is stuck either tell them to allow entry or raid them
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby Nightdawg » Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:52 pm

Nightdawg wrote:Let's discuss please :D



Yeah... I don't think a system this complicated and good would be within loftar's expertise, or compatible with the hafen code. This stuff's too advanced.
-1


Hol up, I made this suggestion wtf
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby wonder-ass » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:57 pm

im going to kill so many fkn quest givers when the questgiver update comes out
see homo sexuality trending,. do not do that.
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby redscarfdemon » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:56 am

I like the idea of some quest givers being spirits of some type: ghostly boar, rabbits, deer. Thematically I think that makes sense.

I also like the tree/boulder quest givers.

It would be cool if there were a way to have a lake/river/mountain/fen (more abstract natural ideas) give a quest, too.
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby azrid » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:13 pm

wonder-ass wrote:im going to kill so many fkn quest givers when the questgiver update comes out

this type of griefing is the most harmless compared to what you could be doing
I think being able to secure or risk not claiming your questgivers is a great freedom we have.
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Re: Can we discuss quest givers?

Postby Nightdawg » Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:03 am

Tree conversations

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