Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby Nightdawg » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:22 am

shubla wrote:
Nightdawg wrote:Those buttons literally do nothing when it comes to killing someone. Nothing. Killing. K.i.l.l.i.n.g. ---- N.o.t.h.i.n.g.

You can grab out their armor off to make killing easier.


They're hearthing back, you can't attack them when they're KO'd.
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby shubla » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:27 am

Nightdawg wrote:
shubla wrote:
Nightdawg wrote:Those buttons literally do nothing when it comes to killing someone. Nothing. Killing. K.i.l.l.i.n.g. ---- N.o.t.h.i.n.g.

You can grab out their armor off to make killing easier.


They're hearthing back, you can't attack them when they're KO'd.

That can happen, but there are cases where for reason or another this doesn't happen, and when they wake up, armourlessness speeds up the process.
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:09 am

shubla wrote: there are cases where for reason or another this doesn't happen, and when they wake up, armourlessness speeds up the process.

While this is true, what relevance does it have to the request for the client change? You could have 10 buttons, and if you wanted, you can just memorize which one you want without bothering to even look--just like c, u, t, c crafts a cone cow. Ok, you randomize the buttons... eh, now it's annoying and every other client has the unnecessary ones cut out and the server always gets the "proper" response.

If this request was worded more along the lines of "Make the flower menu more context sensitive based on the state of the target," we probably wouldn't even be hearing such arguments.
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby Apocoreo » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:29 pm

shubla wrote:pain


Even if stealing is mean why make that harder and more annoying when you could make Ko-ing harder. Why in an unfair way that just makes it easier to fall prey to misclicks and punishes people trying to recover their stuff with an alt or friend too? Why suggest adding more bloat to a thread about streamlining the game.

You have a point about armor, I've witnessesed two people, one in-game, die by having their mammoth guard removed and their Con drop. But again, that is not a problem with the steal function, that is a different root issue in how HHP/Con/equipment works.
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby shubla » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:16 am

1 thing just came to my mind.
If you want to bandy the guy that is KO'd immediately after he wakes up, its handy to open the flower menu while he is KO'd and then click bandy when he wakes up!
So there would be some disadvantages in hiding them from KO'd persons.
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby WowGain » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:29 am

shubla wrote:Why make killing and robbing more easy?
I think we should make this instead:
When hearhtling is Ko'd, flower menu contents are mixed and more options are added to make clicking steal more difficult. Maybe some texts like "are you sure" etc.!

why
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby Nightdawg » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:38 pm

shubla wrote:1 thing just came to my mind.
If you want to bandy the guy that is KO'd immediately after he wakes up, its handy to open the flower menu while he is KO'd and then click bandy when he wakes up!
So there would be some disadvantages in hiding them from KO'd persons.


Why are you shitting all over this thread with so many troll arguments? I genuinely didn't understand why people hated on you till this point.
What's the purpose? To make jorb not read decent ideas?
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby shubla » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:02 am

Nightdawg wrote:
shubla wrote:1 thing just came to my mind.
If you want to bandy the guy that is KO'd immediately after he wakes up, its handy to open the flower menu while he is KO'd and then click bandy when he wakes up!
So there would be some disadvantages in hiding them from KO'd persons.


Why are you shitting all over this thread with so many troll arguments? I

This is in no way troll argument :shock:
Often when I play the game I pre-open flowermenus a bit before I actually click them open, so I don't see why this couldn't also happen with KO'd hearthlings.

There are 0 reasons for anyone to hate me.

The first post in this thread was obviously a joke-ish kind of reply, questioning the motive behind doing a change that improves the experience of stealing from KO'd hearthling. Which I think is a valid concern.
But sadly, people often see what they want to.
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby Nightdawg » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:46 am

shubla wrote:This is in no way troll argument :shock:
Often when I play the game I pre-open flowermenus a bit before I actually click them open, so I don't see why this couldn't also happen with KO'd hearthlings.


You pre-open flower menus before you click to open them, or do you mean you open flower menus and look at the buttons for some time before clicking one?
You can't seriously tell me you're going to knock some guy out and then bandy or request to spar with him the second he wakes up, assuming the guy won't actually hearth back thanks to some client crash or whatever, which is not that likely to happen.

By this logic, why do we not have the option to shear sheep when they haven't grown their wool yet? I could click the sheep and wait for it to grow. Or crops, I should be able to see the "Harvest" button in stage 1. Or trees, I should be able to see the "Pick Seeds" button in winter.

If you're telling me you're standing around, waiting for a hearthling to wake up from being KO'd, something's not right with what you and that guy are doing. What are you even doing?
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Re: Hide "Spar" and "Bandy" options from KO'd hearthlings

Postby shubla » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:02 am

Nightdawg wrote:
shubla wrote:This is in no way troll argument :shock:
Often when I play the game I pre-open flowermenus a bit before I actually click them open, so I don't see why this couldn't also happen with KO'd hearthlings.


You pre-open flower menus before you click to open them, or do you mean you open flower menus and look at the buttons for some time before clicking one?
You can't seriously tell me you're going to knock some guy out and then bandy or request to spar with him the second he wakes up, assuming the guy won't actually hearth back thanks to some client crash or whatever, which is not that likely to happen.

By this logic, why do we not have the option to shear sheep when they haven't grown their wool yet? I could click the sheep and wait for it to grow. Or crops, I should be able to see the "Harvest" button in stage 1. Or trees, I should be able to see the "Pick Seeds" button in winter.

If you're telling me you're standing around, waiting for a hearthling to wake up from being KO'd, something's not right with what you and that guy are doing. What are you even doing?

Imagine that there is a tree between you and a forageable, you click to move your character, then open flower menu, then wait until your character has moved enough and then click the menu option.

Shearing sheeps is a fair point.

Bandying I can imagine, giving your friend something instantly when he wakes up from being KO'd. Sparring after KO could be useful for some weird combat tactics sometimes.
I have to admit that these are quite marginal use cases indeed, but they do exist.

A better fix would perhaps be to make flower menu information transmit before you even open the menu. I mean, the client would get information from every object about flower menu options when the object is seen.
This way there would be less delay when using flower menus in general, but also the case where somebody wakes up from being KO'd, you would have the options visible on the same instant as information about waking up, so there would be no need to show bandy etc. when KOd.
One could argue that this would still not be equivalent, because you could spam the flower menu options when he is KO'd so the server would possibly receive the bandy message before you receive the message about KO ending but that is even more marginal case.
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