Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby noindyfikator » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:26 am

I think a good idea before next world is to update ringofbrodgar.
The game change every week. Current Wikipedia is the main source of information for new players and it's outdated. Maybe it's a good time to have one place with up-to-date information about game.
W3 - W10 - Hermit / small plots with spruces
W11 - The Friend Zone
W12 - KoA aka Kingdom of Ashes
W13 - Monke
W14 - Alpaca Farm aka Animal Planet
W15 - Whatever Bay - The Greatest Siege Defense Victory in Haven History - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyUveSeZ0Q
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Re: Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby Apocoreo » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:30 am

Especially siege mechanics, like, damn. In general.
i like game grumps


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Re: Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby mvgulik » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:30 am

Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:26 am - Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:02 am = 24 minutes. (That was fast. lol)

You like to update wikipedia's ringofbrodgar ... Go for it, I say.

(Typical minion "The lights are on but nobody is home" case.)
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Re: Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby Fostik » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:39 am

There is no people who will waste their time to fill wiki, make custom clients, or support other game tools in the world which suffers stagnation.
Only wipe will resurrect interest of players, so some of them will start supporting their projects again.

And few words about wiki:
As always, devs will never participate in wiki creation. It always was player maintained.
Actually it is pretty good supported most of time, the only few problems is that some mechanics are unavailable for wiki writers, since they are accessible by only low amount of top players (who usually not interested in information sharing)
The other problems is that game has too much information, keeping everything up to date is impossible, since some small change can affect all other mechanics, so they become outdated. Spotting non-actual pages is almost impossible. If you want to help with finding outdated information, best way to participate is #wiki channel of official discord channel or forum: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42391
Last edited by Fostik on Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby noindyfikator » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:46 am

Wikipedia is main part of this game. Maybe hire someone to refresh it, or spend some of the dev time to do it
W3 - W10 - Hermit / small plots with spruces
W11 - The Friend Zone
W12 - KoA aka Kingdom of Ashes
W13 - Monke
W14 - Alpaca Farm aka Animal Planet
W15 - Whatever Bay - The Greatest Siege Defense Victory in Haven History - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyUveSeZ0Q
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Re: Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby MagicManICT » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:04 pm

A) Wikipedia is a non-profit organization that uses the "wiki markup language" to publish encyclopedic articles on the Internet. (I think I stated that correctly.)

B) Ring of Brodgar (as in reference to Haven & Hearth) is a website that hosts a "wiki" for game information managed by a member of the community. A wiki also exists on the website wikia.com.

C) Let's not confuse the RoB wiki and the Wikia site... or Wikipedia. Wikia is a commercial venture designed to make money off the information it hosts (same with Gamepedia, owned by I forget which corporation now). The Wikia information has not been updated in 10(?) years.

D)Much like the companies that own name brands like Kleenex, Play-doh, and others, they fight hard to avoid this kind of "name confusion" as if they don't, they can lose their trademarks.

E) Additionally, it confuses many people. You say "Wikipedia," and someone is going to unironically go to wikipedia.org to find information, unlike mvgulik. (+1 for that, btw! Made me :D )

F) Lastly, if you want changes to RoB, then create an account, log in, and make those changes. Please use the proper thread for this. Any of the "help" information released is player generated based off experience and experimentation. If asked, jorb and loftar will sometimes cover basic information, and often technical information (such as commands or information you can't get by playing the game), but otherwise prefer the players figure it out for themselves.

Apocoreo wrote:Especially siege mechanics, like, damn. In general.

See 'F)'. We need people to actually use and research them beyond what is in patch notes. If they're not updated even up to what's in patch notes, there's only so many of us that have been willing to update the site. I've created my own project for now, so I'm not interested in doing anything other than minor updates that are pointed out to me. I'm trying to update things I do find in the course of my project.

Fostik wrote:There is no people who will waste their time to fill wiki, make custom clients, or support other game tools in the world which suffers stagnation.
Only wipe will resurrect interest of players, so some of them will start supporting their projects again.

As an FYI, it's easier to stay up with incremental changes on these things than try to go in after some months, or even years, of putting off the changes. The combination of incremental changes from week to week on top of the major client update we had this year is part of the reason why the modded clients just aren't keeping up (though I think Ender is the only person actively trying to fix things.)

I don't see much value for this thread in C&I, and as linked above, there is a more appropriate place for requests RoB changes. If you don't have time to actually make the changes there, at least point out the pages issues and what is wrong and the right information so someone that does have the time can edit it in. We could use more editors and writers, too. It's a community effort and only as effective as the community makes it.
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
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Re: Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby AriZona » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:52 am

Fostik wrote: ... few problems is that some mechanics are unavailable for wiki writers, since they are accessible by only low amount of top players (who usually not interested in information sharing)


IMHO, Fostik has just nailed (unwillingly probably) two major and very deep issues that creep like cancer through the game:

    * The unavailable mechanics. A player gets LP/XP, buys a skill, and (shocking :oops: ?!) does not now how that skill functions (wow!). A player learned something, then the player has to get the full access to the knowledge of it. Unless the lack of transparency benefits somebody.
    * Open nepotism. Devs are endorsing ideas only of a few ppl. Many may find a straightforward logical relation between somebody who suggest new mechanics, when their suggestion gets implemented (especially if there is a direct conversation with devs), and those few players who carry enormous benefits of knowledge which is inaccessible to the rest of player base. Here you go to the above bullet-point :(. But probably there are reasons or benefits in exchange why only selected ppls are listen to.

Based on the above wiki efforts (at least partially) might be rationally sabotaged. Including some Snail raiding or silencing hermits who speak in advantage of wiki. Oh - dont forget the same Snail who openly seeks player extortion and payments, and devs are silent about that to. Very interesting.
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Re: Update wikipedia - ringofbrodgar

Postby MagicManICT » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:11 am

AriZona wrote:Open nepotism

I don't think this word means what you think it does. It's specifically means relatives who receive things, typically jobs, based on familial relationships, not on merit.

If ideas picked here for implementation are from seemingly at random, it's because the devs have an interest in the concept, and not because of favoritism. Much like winning a Forensics tournament, presentation of what you have is as important as the information you've gathered. If you feel favoritism is being laid upon some who are vocal about what is and isn't broken, it may well be the presentation of information along with the skill to put it to use to show how it is broken. I can dig up a ton of history on this.

AriZona wrote:Based on the above wiki efforts (at least partially) might be rationally sabotaged. Including some Snail raiding or silencing hermits who speak in advantage of wiki. Oh - dont forget the same Snail who openly seeks player extortion and payments, and devs are silent about that to. Very interesting.

I'm going to kill this right here. If you, or anyone else for that matter, have an issue with another player in the game, then do something proactive to deal with it in the game and use The Moot to discuss any occurrences. Or just beef about them in The Moot. If you think someone is exploiting a bug to the detriment of other players, take it to Bugs and explain what occurred or PM jorb or loftar. I don't care which you choose, just don't drag it all over the forums. I'm pretty sure jorb and loftar have seen the posts on the forums, and may have seen what goes on in chat in game. I don't make up the rules here, I just try to enforce them on the forum, and I certainly have no say as to what the rules are in the game.

There have been attempts at sabotaging the wiki in the past, but there is a fairly attentive admin staff to catch such shenanigans.
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
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