Remove Returning Tokens to HF

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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby Apocoreo » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:09 am

Zentetsuken wrote:
DDDsDD999 wrote:No one would buy tokens and most people who weren't using PayPal already would now. I'd like it if RMT didn't exist tho


I'm sure people would still buy tokens to make trades, they just wouldn't be used as a default currency.
I can see realms buying tokens to buy stuff from people, like guano and whatnot
I can also see realms still using them as currency a bit, tossing some on alts or fighters who cannot afford, etc.

There would only be a small group of people who would stop buying them out of spite


This^ I do think we would see reduced purchases for a time, before a boom.

Tokens would remain an in-game currency available from day 1 and more valuable then gold, but less valuable in-game then before. Subscribed characters would be more common. Do token-subbed characters get the hats? If so, hat prices will go down until individual hats become discontinued. The main issue in the thread will persist as people will continue playing the market with hat trades rather than tokens. However hat trading cannot be automated through public markets, and every hat is valued differently so the issue of world-persistent power will be greatly mitigated.
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:21 am

I think you're greatly overestimating the importance of starting a world token rich as an autist. The first two months is when autists get 95% of their tokens, and even if you do very little trading there unironically isn't enough stuff you'd want to buy to be able to spend your profits
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby Apocoreo » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:25 am

SnuggleSnail wrote:I think you're greatly overestimating the importance of starting a world token rich as an autists. The first two months is when autists get 95% of their tokens, and even if you do very little trading there unironically isn't enough stuff you'd want to buy to be able to spend it all


So I've been suggesting - from the viewpoint of a mid tier player - that early world there's an initial spending of tokens followed by purchasing and hoardings. You describe the reality as autists getting the highest q stuff early world (as they should for the work they put in), sell it for tokens, then have nothing to spend it on for the rest of the world? If true, I think that is how it should work. Is there no issues with them not succeeding in every industry, and using tokens from last world to bolster other industries? And who's buying their expensive resources, are there cases of token hoarders buying from the various autists to match their market q's, becoming jack's-of-all-trades q wise?

Ngl this does call into question whether or not there is a problem, but I'd like specific examples across worlds and to hear the opinion of others who have directly interacted with the token trade through worlds. Do these autists focus on 1 resource or get high in everything? I'll acknowledge that some resource Q's, especially wood, are interconnected, if softcapped.
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby DDDsDD999 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:25 am

Zentetsuken wrote:
DDDsDD999 wrote:No one would buy tokens and most people who weren't using PayPal already would now. I'd like it if RMT didn't exist tho


I'm sure people would still buy tokens to make trades, they just wouldn't be used as a default currency.
I can see realms buying tokens to buy stuff from people, like guano and whatnot
I can also see realms still using them as currency a bit, tossing some on alts or fighters who cannot afford, etc.

There would only be a small group of people who would stop buying them out of spite

People wouldn't buy them because each world barely puts a dent into trader's token stockpile. No one would accept them for trade since you'd barely be able to use any before the end of the world.

If you guys want to kill token trading that's fine, but don't pretend that this change would do anything besides make tokens worthless
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby Apocoreo » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:55 am

DDDsDD999 wrote:People wouldn't buy them because each world barely puts a dent into trader's token stockpile. No one would accept them for trade since you'd barely be able to use any before the end of the world.

If you guys want to kill token trading that's fine, but don't pretend that this change would do anything besides make tokens worthless


Barely a dent is still a dent, it would take years but the issue would eventually solve itself. How many tokens would you say these people have, and how much do they spend per world?

You'd be able to use 1 token per month per world, my group would like to trade our goods for tokens this world, 12 for each character ideally, but atm they're so valuable it's unattainable. They're effectively worthless to me already, if I want to sub I'd just sub rather than buy tokens. I'd sell anything short of a vital tool for tokens. I'd want 1 a month just for the sweet inventory space, I don't care if it's for 1 month or 12.

Thing is, I'd want more than I need. I would want more tokens to buy more stuff from other people. I'd give them to my hermit friends as gifts, payment for dungeon or troll killing help. I'd use them as currency. Hell I'm tempted to shell out a token for a good pick this world, but every pick of good enough q is 5+ tokens and fuck you I'm not spending that much real cash this late in the world.

If this change goes through and you still feel the same, drop me a PM. We'll find something you want and perhaps I'll put a dent in your stockpile.
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby Sevenless » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:02 am

It'd be very close to just saying "Ok we're not selling tokens anymore" and let the ingame token stockpile "decay" over time via use.

Not sure how that can be advocated for (with or without replacement suggestions) without knowing details about their financial situation players shouldn't really be privy to.
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby Apocoreo » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:39 pm

Sevenless wrote:It'd be very close to just saying "Ok we're not selling tokens anymore" and let the ingame token stockpile "decay" over time via use.

Not sure how that can be advocated for (with or without replacement suggestions) without knowing details about their financial situation players shouldn't really be privy to.


I mean they're still stockpiled in the HF when purchased and useable as currency in-game.

You have a point on the financial situation, but I wonder how many people actually buy tokens. Probably none atm but how much early world? Not the people who've stockpiled them, for sure.

The possibility of increased profits down the line justifies the suggestion. Whether it would require additional monetization in the short term, or straight up not work is for J&L to say. I'm going to take their silence in this thread as a "maybe, keep talking, keep debating, keep learning". Or they haven't noticed it yet lol.
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby shubla » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:20 pm

Sevenless wrote:It'd be very close to just saying "Ok we're not selling tokens anymore"


I would like to believe that subtokens were originally meant for being able to buy subscription easily to your friends etc. Instead of becoming de facto currency for everything. (Even though some usage of them could have be predicted inevitable)
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby Agrik » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:35 am

Apocoreo wrote:2. Tokens can be returned to the Hearth Fire and from there persist to the next worlds
As I've never used or traded tokens, how and where are they returned? One can take a token from his inventory and put it into his HF? I see nothing about it on the "Shoppe" page.

Apocoreo wrote:I do not advocate for their total removal, just the removal of the ability to return them to the Hearth Fire.
If my guess is right, what about a smaller change, to make unspent tokens return to the original buyer* at the end of the world? It won't change much for those who buy tokens for actual use, until they do it at the last moment of the world and doesn't manage to use the token before the server goes down.

I think this would have less impact on the game than the destruction of unspent tokens.

* For tokens that already exist at the moment of implementation, I think, it would be better to substitute "original buyer" with "person who owned it at the moment of implementation", so not to undermine previous deals.
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Re: Remove Returning Tokens to HF

Postby Fostik » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:11 pm

From one side, the fact that token gets cheaper every world, makes tokens pointless to buy from store, and this is a problem for game monetization.
From the other side, decision of devaluating tokens with this change are too harsh for players, who saved them for further usage.

I'm afraid, devs need to totally rework this system, but at current game stage they barely can.
Last edited by Fostik on Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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