Realm Mechanic Alternative

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby Zentetsuken » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:39 pm

Realms are stupid and broken
I do not claim to know anywhere near enough about them to offer ideas on how to tweak them back in to working order
so instead I offer what is more of a total overhaul

Presumably devs would not want to completely scrap them even though the word on the street is that they should be completely scrapped

So here is a weird sort of alternative to how they could work that effectively neuters them and makes them more larpy and less retarded.
This came to me in a dream. 8-)


Realms are still built with a coronation stone and need a king or queen or w/e
but the idea of expanding them with cairns is gone
Monoliths are basically gone, if there are any there is like a super tiny amount that are all unique, but there should be a few more things similar to "Summit of The Mountain" around the world. Like "world wonders." ROB should be one, maybe even some weird underground shit, like archaeological sites that need to be mined out, or maybe even parts of the world where strange happenings occur, like a random part of the map where a giant fairy circle spawns only in the spring and is completely gone at other points of the year.
Realms would claim world wonders with something similar to a cairn, but they are way more expensive and require a lot of authority upkeep, generally this is something that would only be done after a realm has oathed in a lot of villages
There is no "line of cairns" to this area, it's just a single super expensive build with no attached chain of realm claims.

If a village wants to be part of a realm, a realm queen or some sort of appointed representative has to visit said village and "oath in" the village idol
this effectively makes the village [[village name] of [realm name]]
this village now has the option to build a new construction, like a trading post or offering table or something
the village builds this object and feeds it endlessly in order to gain realm benefits


The realm itself would choose what offerings it is accepting, maybe they are categorized like crops, forageables, meats, pelts, ores???

Now here is where I am a bit foggy but I can see a few different paths unfolding
maybe the offerings themselves are what grants the realm authority, like the are converted in to authority?
but maybe there is like some new categories of authority-like things

Like, a realm has a new GUI with hoards, like a crop-hoard, and ore-hoard, etc.
and these are intangible things, just bars that fill up based on the offerings from the villages
and with each world wonder a realm claims, they have the ability to create a new hoard, and full hoards are now like the things that apply minor buffs to people or places within the realm


So, example, X Realm has 10 villages oathed in, they finally manage to claim a special world wonder, build a nice wall around it and all that junk, and decide that they want to boost crops

So they go in to the realm GUI and choose to start a crop hoard
Maybe they must also build a physical representation of this for extra larping, something like a crop-theme grotesque idol, this is like a larp representation of the realm being "crop rich"
Now, they must change the offerings to crops in order to fill the crop hoard status bar
All villages oathed in are now responsible for giving a daily crop offering to their offering table construction
these offerings slowly fill the bar, and once it is full, a crop-related bonus comes in to effect for all areas oathed and claimed by the realm
obviously this bar would need to have a natural drain that must be maintained

I can imagine some things coming in to play, like offering quality, maybe requiring high quality would promote trade between realm villages who want to maintain buffs

Anyways, this was just a random brainstorm I had, surely some of this is just as garbage or exploitable as the current system, but I thought I would share it anyways because maybe some of the ideas would help spark some better ideas from other people

edit: side note - the idea is to force a mutual benefit between realm-creator village and oathed villages. Presumably, in order to try to break this with botting, a realm creator would have to bot like 20 individual oathed in villages with automated farming and offerings. The idea would be that each village has a maximum daily amount of offerings so hopefully we would surpass a threshold here where the idea of trying to solo this and break it with bots would simply not be worth it.
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby MrBunzy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:26 am

Zentetsuken wrote:Realms are stupid and broken

Yep
Zentetsuken wrote:they should be completely scrapped

+1
Zentetsuken wrote:random brainstorm I had, surely this is just as garbage

yep it is skip that part.
(once and futue king btw)
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby Zentetsuken » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:44 am

MrBunzy wrote:
Zentetsuken wrote:Realms are stupid and broken

Yep
Zentetsuken wrote:they should be completely scrapped

+1
Zentetsuken wrote:random brainstorm I had, surely this is just as garbage

yep it is skip that part.


fair, but also :x
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby TheOriginalFive » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:54 pm

Probably only workable with a higher population count. Considering the typical playstyle of people going dormant as the world grows older, how do you account for this?

What would prevent a tyrant from still running around and bashing in their citizens' heads for arbitrary reasons if they decide they want IRL money instead of game resources?
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby insanechef » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:12 pm

TheOriginalFive wrote:
What would prevent a tyrant from still running around and bashing in their citizens' heads for arbitrary reasons if they decide they want IRL money instead of game resources?

Pvp
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby Zentetsuken » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:35 pm

TheOriginalFive wrote:Probably only workable with a higher population count. Considering the typical playstyle of people going dormant as the world grows older, how do you account for this?

What would prevent a tyrant from still running around and bashing in their citizens' heads for arbitrary reasons if they decide they want IRL money instead of game resources?


There is so way to undermine this behaviour. It was present since the game began and has been a legitimate strategy and playstyle for a decade.
In no way was my idea creative with the thought of helping to pacify babies who don't want to be griefed.
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby ZoniaX » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:40 pm

I like at most the idea where a village can chose which kingdom they support because now you have no opportunity to do anything if you get claimed by a realm.
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby AriZona » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:39 pm

imho, realms are needed and they are OK. It just their interaction mechanics with the rest should be better and more interactive. Here is some extra thoughts:

    * - Only players under village claim can enjoy realm bonuses. It would affect animal nodes (affects bone), but it maybe compensated by better livestock bonuses
    * - Villages should have an option to withheld authority drained by a realm. But - at the same time - realm bonuses withing the area of that village should be scaled up or down based on provided authority (limits imposed).
    * - Fealty stones & cairns should go away
    * - Instead, the Coronation Stone expands a realm x3-x5 times the cairn (or whatever devs will consider). The realm is expanded through other villages that are within reach of realm(!): village idols functions as cairns. The village becomes "aka cairn" only reaching its authority benchmark set by realm or devs. If few realms have a boundary, they boundary can shift based on which realm has larger authority. The realm automatically propagates to the mines bellow (keep it simple). It can be a choice in mechanics that only villages that reached "realm level" may provide realm bonuses.
.
    * - only the kings/queens (or the hearth of the realm) can control type of bonuses the realm provides
    * - Villages may revolt to leave the realm they belong to and giving some time for royalties to deal with situation :). It might be needed if a village is at the boundary of realms and another realm convinced switching sides.

What this mechanics could lead to: active boom of realms at the beginning and active shifts in realms in mid game. Probably there might be more incentives pushing hermits into villages and more active political landscape.
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby vatas » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:55 pm

Would it bee too convoluted:

1. Hermits that aren't part of village can become citizens that contribute some Authority to realm they belong to

2. Authority goes more effectively to Realms through Villages

3. Villages get to, if not "vote" but "request" or "petition" for specific buff (based on amount of Authority they contribute) and Realm benefits from fulfilling these?

4. Villages can rebel/revolt but they will forfeit all realm buffs if they do so
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Re: Realm Mechanic Alternative

Postby SnuggleSnail » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:23 pm

everybody's ideas regarding realms are dumb and wouldn't work as intended .3 seconds after an autist got their hands on it.

What do realms rly contribute to the game? Has anybody ever said "oh boy, I can't wait for the new world so I can build a realm"? If you completely ignore the fact that none of anybody's ideas for balancing realms would work, you're still left with the question of is this fun content, and if not does it provide any benefits to the game other the fun? I think the answer is almost strictly no on all fronts.

Cons
- Realms have the huge downside of encouraging big alliances, that basically remove the ability to play in a smaller group at higher levels
- Realms have retarded OP buffs attached to them, that can easily benefit only or predominately the owners of a realm, even if the realm covers a lot people
- Realms being destroyed or abandoned(VERY COMMON OCCURRENCE) can make worthless any village previously living inside of it
- Boring to build and maintain
- Impossible to balance with numbers(authority), because the world's total auth gen varies so drastically
- There will be, like, 2-3 realm fights between every realm before one side gives up because they're outmatched, and just spams delay/builds
- Every previous iteration of them vulnerable to a myriad of exploits, no good ideas to solve them
- Good unbiased feedback on how to balance them nearly impossible, because there's such a high entry point to interacting with them on any significant level

Pros they're all rly small pros
- I don't need to quest to use raw hide, a bandaid only a tiny group of people get to benefit from, to help with a problem that shouldn't exist
- Realm/global chat is really good for social people, even though realms are usually too small to cover enough people for realm chat to be active
- The plebs can sell me some bat poo for the first two months, after which it becomes worthless, instead of selling me some salt in the same timeframe


There's really no upside to having realms in any capacity outside of LARP, and attaching OP tryhard autist shit to LARP is bad for everybody. just add global chat with a userside ignore function & no moderators, while removing all of the OP buffs realms have, or change them to be cool shit instead of numbers-higher-I-need-this-or-I-can't-do-shit.

It doesn't need to be strictly removed content, the code could all be reused whenever somebody comes up with a good idea for realms... But I think leaving content that absolutely nobody likes in the game for years and years is rly bad. Especially stuff that encourages big alliances, because even after the thing that caused them to band together disappears, they will probably remain allied for a long time.
Last edited by SnuggleSnail on Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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